CAP unit lineage

James Shaw · August 31, 2008, 07:42:14 PM

My definiton of Lineage: A DIRECT link to a person or group with no break inbetween. This could be activation dates or participation.

My definition of Heritage: An association tied in with a particular person or group but will have a break somehwhere in the line.

For example I had my family background researched many years ago.

The heritage information I was given after a couple of years and lots of green was this.

Heritage - My family heritage was associated with the Scottish and Irish which I have on 1 side of my family. My heritage is of both sides.

My families coat of arms has a DIRECT lineage to the Third Earl of Fife in the 1600's and a unbroken family line has been proven through historical records. I use the Coat of Arms and can claim lineage to the line but claim the heritage of both Scottish and Irish (primarily Irish).

From the corporate perspective:

Company a founded in 1980 buys a company founded in 1890 and becomes one. The Corp can now claim the 1890 date because they have established an unbroken line.

RiverAux · August 31, 2008, 08:18:14 PM

Thanks for your comments which pretty much follow generally accepted principles.

My only point of difference would be that it is legitimate to reactive an old unit by giving its number (and therefore its honors and lineage) to a "new" unit. The military does this as a routine matter even if there is no direct connection between the members of the old unit and the new and even if there is a break of decades. For CAP purposes I would only allow such a reactivation of an old charter number when the "new" unit is in the same town as the old one. For example, if the Army wanted to reactivate a division that last saw action in WWII, they could do so and assign the name, symbols, motto, history, and honors to the reactivated unit.

Maj. C, I don't think I can go along with the uses you are making of the insignia of CP Base 15 as you describe them. I think that steps over the line. Granted, since there is no official CAP guidance on such things, as long as your Wing Commander approves the symbol, it is "legal"... I just don't think it is right to do so.

James Shaw · August 31, 2008, 08:22:45 PM

I would have to say that reusing the exact same image or patch from a previous unit would give the wrong impression. maybe using elements of the patch perhaps but not the same.

RiverAux · August 31, 2008, 09:10:14 PM

CAPR 20-3 seems to have the closest thing we have to a rule on unit lineage....

Quote9. Reactivation of Former Units. Deactivated units may be reactivated at the discretion of the wing commander upon proper application and payment of the usual charter fee. Original name and charter number may be requested.

Major Carrales · August 31, 2008, 10:53:22 PM

Quote from: RiverAux on August 31, 2008, 08:18:14 PM
Maj. C, I don't think I can go along with the uses you are making of the insignia of CP Base 15 as you describe them. I think that steps over the line. Granted, since there is no official CAP guidance on such things, as long as your Wing Commander approves the symbol, it is "legal"... I just don't think it is right to do so.

The patch was approved by the Wing and Region Commanders and encouraged thusly. The color of the original was changed (original "pinks and greens" were changed to blue) slightly to reflect the "new" nature of the new patch.

I don't see anything wrong with our patch, it is a homage to the original CAP presence in our area. No different than a San Antonio unit using the Alamo in its patch or a Massachusetts one using a colonial Minuteman.

SarDragon · August 31, 2008, 11:01:50 PM

I know of a situation in NJWG where a unit was renamed to honor a deceased former member, and then some years later a new unit was chartered with the olde name and a new charter number.

RiverAux · August 31, 2008, 11:22:27 PM

Quote from: Major Carrales on August 31, 2008, 10:53:22 PM
I don't see anything wrong with our patch, it is a homage to the original CAP presence in our area. No different than a San Antonio unit using the Alamo in its patch or a Massachusetts one using a colonial Minuteman.

Except that here we are talking about the appropriation of a symbol associated with a very specific unit by another that has no direct connection to it. Just because it was approved as per current CAP patch regulations doesn't mean that it is "right".

But, I don't want to get too far off track on the symbolism issue. As long as your members aren't being taught and don't get the idea that previous members of the squadron were hunting subs during WWII, I suppose its good enough for now as far as unit lineage goes.

Major Carrales · August 31, 2008, 11:34:19 PM

Quote from: RiverAux on August 31, 2008, 11:22:27 PM
But, I don't want to get too far off track on the symbolism issue. As long as your members aren't being taught and don't get the idea that previous members of the squadron were hunting subs during WWII, I suppose its good enough for now as far as unit lineage goes.

All it is is an hommage to the past heritage of CAP is South Texas, nothing more...nothing less.

Reading anymore into it or the intent behind its use (other than local unit morale, based on pride in general CAP service in WWII) is somewhat disingenuous.