Cell Phone Tracking Technology

[Capt Rivera]

http://www.kold.com/Global/story.asp?S=8852857&nav=14RT

So what is this Cell Phone Tracking Technology WE have?  

[RiverAux]

So what is this Cell Phone Tracking Technology WE have?  

Someone from AFRCC calls the cell phone company...

[Tubacap]

^River, although what you say is true, that is only one tool in the tool box.  Once the information from the cell phone company is obtained, it is just a matter of traingulation to figure out where the phone is, or at least the last known position of the phone.  However, you can get very accurate when dealing with antenna height and power as well as analog vs. digital signals.

There are several people in CAP that I know of that often get called upon to do this specific mission and are very good at it.

[FW]

Believe it or not, it was a member of CAP who developed the process.  I remember a demonstration a couple of years ago at an annual conf.  Obviously, it works

[RiverAux]

The last few missing airplane missions I served as staff on didn't have any positive info come back to the AFRCC from the cell company, so we haven't had the opportunity to take the next step.  I appreciate the information.  

Can you explain a bit more exactly what you've been getting back from the cell company from these requests and how that info is handled?  If CAP members are the ones expected to do this translation, I'm more than a bit disappointed that these techniques haven't been more widely disseminated. 

[Capt Rivera]

The last few missing airplane missions I served as staff on didn't have any positive info come back to the AFRCC from the cell company, so we haven't had the opportunity to take the next step.  I appreciate the information.  

Can you explain a bit more exactly what you've been getting back from the cell company from these requests and how that info is handled?  If CAP members are the ones expected to do this translation, I'm more than a bit disappointed that these techniques haven't been more widely disseminated. 

I concur! Please share! If you can't share here, then it should be made aviable through E-Services I would think? We need to be training to use "advances in technology" before we need them.... Thanks

[MikeD]

The last few missing airplane missions I served as staff on didn't have any positive info come back to the AFRCC from the cell company, so we haven't had the opportunity to take the next step.  I appreciate the information. 

Can you explain a bit more exactly what you've been getting back from the cell company from these requests and how that info is handled?  If CAP members are the ones expected to do this translation, I'm more than a bit disappointed that these techniques haven't been more widely disseminated. 

I concur! Please share! If you can't share here, then it should be made aviable through E-Services I would think? We need to be training to use "advances in technology" before we need them.... Thanks

Definitely, this is the kind of thing people in every wing, maybe every group need to know about.  What does it take to make it happen, and does CAP buy any equipment?  Or do we get techs from the phone company to help with this? 

Also, if someone had their cell phone on during a flight, I wonder if someone at the phone company could check where the signal dropped out, giving us at least a rough idea of direction and area...

[IceNine]

One one of the missions that we tried to use this on we were told that there are very different ways of tracking cell phones, that vary wildly by provider.

For instance, Verizon can only track cell phones that are currently on a call, or that made a 911 call.  Otherwise they don't keep track of the information.  And we were told that there is no way for them to flag that phone so they could notify us of any action.

Whereas t-mobile was able to give us a gps location within 5 miles, for a phone that was only turned on, but hadn't made a call in several hours.

I think that this would be a great course to be made available maybe during NESA or online or something of the sort.

[jb512]

For now I think a lot of that information is going to be limited to law enforcement and in most cases it takes a search warrant to get it.  There is more information that your cellular provider has on you than you think, but to get it, at least for law enforcement, it takes a warrant signed by a judge.

It gets into areas of privacy and such and I don't think that they'd hand out the technology to track phones to just anyone.  A lot of this came from wives and husbands trying to use it in divorce hearings when the other was running around. 

There is a ton of stuff you can get from providers, but they won't give it out to just anyone without a legitimate reason and it has to be specific to your needs.  I'm sure that a missing pilot would qualify, but it's going to take more than just handing out tracking hardware.  The provider is going to need to maintain that capability.

[jimmydeanno]

My Verizon cell has an option to shut off the phone tracker unless I'm making a 911 call.  When you give people options like that someone is bound to use it - I know a lot of people that do simply for the "big brother" factor.

[jb512]

My Verizon cell has an option to shut off the phone tracker unless I'm making a 911 call.  When you give people options like that someone is bound to use it - I know a lot of people that do simply for the "big brother" factor.

It's not the same thing.  Your phone is always finding towers and anything you do with it is kept by the provider.  If you're a crook, it's pretty easy to keep tabs on what you're doing with the right warrants.

[IceNine]

^ Thats what I was saying.

We had the county sherriff, and a warrant, and verizon said the only time they can track a phone is if it made a 911 call, or if they are CURRENTLY on a call.

It doesn't matter if the phone is on, or if they made a call 2 minutes ago.  Verizon doesn't retain cell locations except for 911 calls.

Other providers vary in their degree of tracking/recording.

[jb512]

It works better for us.... shhh...

[Flying Pig]

We get "911 hang ups" all the time and most come with GPS Lat/Long.  I put the lat long into the moving map in the heilcopter or the GPS in my patrol car and go right to it.  Whats funny is when some punk doesnt know that his new cell phone has that feature and denies it was him calling and denies even having a cell phone.

"Dispatch, could you call back the number?"

Then suddenly the cell phone the little turd has in his pocket starts to ring.   :clap:

[IceNine]

Hey now lets be fair.  911 is an easy number to accidentally dial, and its even harder to know who you are talking to on the other end when they say things like "911 what is your emergency?"

[SJFedor]

Hey now lets be fair.  911 is an easy number to accidentally dial, and its even harder to know who you are talking to on the other end when they say things like "911 what is your emergency?"

Yeah, but when Robert shows up in his whirly bird and is asking if you're the one that called 911, you're probably better off just admitting it.

Otherwise he'll do this to you:

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

Hey now lets be fair.  911 is an easy number to accidentally dial, and its even harder to know who you are talking to on the other end when they say things like "911 what is your emergency?"

I gave up on trying to voice dial 411 or 511 on my cell phone. The software seems skewed toward 911

[Flying Pig]

On a serious note.

As far as tracking cell phones, that is a huge process and takes specialized electronic equipment to do it.  The only ones I know of who do it around where I am are the Federal Agencies, Secret Service, US Marshals.  Other than that, I think about all we are going to get is Lat/Long from the providers as the calls come in.

[jb512]

On a serious note.

As far as tracking cell phones, that is a huge process and takes specialized electronic equipment to do it.  The only ones I know of who do it around where I am are the Federal Agencies, Secret Service, US Marshals.  Other than that, I think about all we are going to get is Lat/Long from the providers as the calls come in.

We just got a LE update on that very thing that I could send you in pm.

[Rangercap]

...For instance, Verizon can only track cell phones that are currently on a call, or that made a 911 call.  Otherwise they don't keep track of the information.  And we were told that there is no way for them to flag that phone so they could notify us of any action.

Whereas t-mobile was able to give us a gps location within 5 miles, for a phone that was only turned on, but hadn't made a call in several hours...

Verizon can track a call WHEN it is made to the phone. That is, if you call a phone, and it rings, it gets logged by Verizon. It does not have to be actively calling - maybe for GPS, but you don't need GPS initially. Also, you do not need specific equipment to track phone or GPS coordinates - basic map and compass is about it. Verizon can give you the lat/longs for their towers and the vector from each to the direction of the call. All you need to do is plot the vector and triangulate the approximate position. It does give you SIGINIFICANTLY better resolution than that of an ELT alone - that is an ELT with 3-4 SARSAT hits (granted you have an ELT in the first place). A cell phone could produce a search area of a few square miles, while a few sarsat hits are typically a 10 times that.

Data produced by Verizon (or probably any other major carrier) can get you similar information. This technology made it to the forefront a few years ago in a mission involving PAWG and MDWG. The pilot's cell phone was working, and called several times. Data was obtained and plotted and was found to be VERY close to the final position of the aircraft. The method above was tested using a members phone on a verizon network. The vectors were plotted, and the data produce was accurate. The pilots phone was called, and the data collected and subsequently plotted.

I'm not a pilot, but I do tell pilots now to keep there phones ON. Although there are phones out there that can be turned on remotely, they are few and far between. It is best to leave it on.

If you want more info on the St. Thomas mission and others using cell phone data, the member who pioneered the method has a powerpoint that has been posted by www.cap-es.net

http://www.cap-es.net/Downloads%20&%20Links/Downloads.htm

Brian
PAWG