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Author Topic: 2008 Summer Board Video  (Read 12999 times)
ColonelJack
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« Reply #100 on: August 09, 2008, 03:28:48 PM »

Currently, ONLY NCOs are permitted to wear enlisted rank in CAP, and E-4s in services other than the AF are considered NCOs.

Unless I'm mistaken, Army E-4s who are Specialists are not considered NCOs, while those wearing Corporal stripes are NCOs.

The difference in pay is negligible if it exists at all, while the difference in other ways is wide.

Of course, I could be wrong ...

Jack
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Jack Bagley, Ed. D.
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IceNine
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« Reply #101 on: August 09, 2008, 04:19:34 PM »

With no disrespect intended, would you say the same thing if you don't get selected as a Chief?
Yes I would! That is my point in fact, Who is pushing this? Folks who "neverwere" but want to become Chiefs.  Take your "promotion" to 2Lt work hard in CAP and become a Lt Col... Now if everyone came it CAP as an Airman and our standards for 2Lt were higher I would sign a different tune where CAP NCO's led airman and SNCO's mentored CGO's... but that isn't our program... and do you really think once we had NCO's that would change? <rant off> :P

But, if the stripes are not the Air Force ones, I can be OK with it, but really what is the point? I still don't see the "purpose" of the entire thing....

Not quite true there is a chief behind all of this, I can't recall her name but they referred to her a few dozen times during thiis session of the board
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Trung Si Ma
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« Reply #102 on: August 09, 2008, 04:49:13 PM »

Currently, ONLY NCOs are permitted to wear enlisted rank in CAP, and E-4s in services other than the AF are considered NCOs.

Unless I'm mistaken, Army E-4s who are Specialists are not considered NCOs, while those wearing Corporal stripes are NCOs.

The difference in pay is negligible if it exists at all, while the difference in other ways is wide.

Of course, I could be wrong ...

Jack

Jack,

The new Army Blue Uniform doesn't allow junior enlisted (SPC and below) the gold trouser stripe to show a difference between NCO and EM.  There is no pay difference - an E-4 is a E-4.

Don
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« Reply #103 on: August 09, 2008, 04:49:35 PM »

As I recall, the Chief was the only NCO on the committee (they flashed a screen with the membership).  I think there was one wing commander, a region commander and I forget who all else.  However, the current Chief isn't the one who started this, it was the one from Iowa.
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Trung Si Ma
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« Reply #104 on: August 09, 2008, 04:51:45 PM »

Not quite true there is a chief behind all of this, I can't recall her name but they referred to her a few dozen times during thiis session of the board


CMSgt Lou Walpus from OK.  She's retired AF and was OKWG Finance until joining the National Staff.
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Lancer
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« Reply #105 on: August 09, 2008, 11:14:59 PM »

Someone needs to tell them to turn on the video cameras for the banquet.  ;)

EDIT: Working...Thank you! :clap:
« Last Edit: August 09, 2008, 11:19:09 PM by Lancer » Report to moderator   Logged
Maj Ballard
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« Reply #106 on: August 09, 2008, 11:27:55 PM »

Did the national champion Color Guard already post? I think I missed them. (They're my cadets.)
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L. Ballard, Major, CAP
Lancer
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« Reply #107 on: August 09, 2008, 11:28:54 PM »

Did the national champion Color Guard already post? I think I missed them. (They're my cadets.)

No video...just audio at that time. I know, I was looking for them too.  :-X
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Maj Ballard
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« Reply #108 on: August 09, 2008, 11:30:02 PM »

Bummer. Hopefully someone shot good video.
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L. Ballard, Major, CAP
ColonelJack
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« Reply #109 on: August 10, 2008, 01:33:19 AM »

Who's the fellow emceeing the banquet?

Jack
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Jack Bagley, Ed. D.
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FW
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« Reply #110 on: August 10, 2008, 03:24:57 AM »

The Color Guard was perfect.   The MC was Jonathan Freed, former CNN news correspondant.  He's now spokesman for State Farm Ins. and a member of CAP.
It was a great evening. 
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DNall
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« Reply #111 on: August 10, 2008, 06:41:19 AM »

With no disrespect intended, would you say the same thing if you don't get selected as a Chief?
Yes I would! That is my point in fact, Who is pushing this? Folks who "neverwere" but want to become Chiefs.  Take your "promotion" to 2Lt work hard in CAP and become a Lt Col... Now if everyone came it CAP as an Airman and our standards for 2Lt were higher I would sign a different tune where CAP NCO's led airman and SNCO's mentored CGO's... but that isn't our program... and do you really think once we had NCO's that would change? <rant off> :P

But, if the stripes are not the Air Force ones, I can be OK with it, but really what is the point? I still don't see the "purpose" of the entire thing....

To clarify, I believe this is a stepped process to achieve broader change. You can't implement radically higher standards for 2Lt without there being an alternative for those that don't/can't/won't meet them for whatever reason, but can still make an important contribution. Because we don't separate those two groups now, we end up not training anyone & accomplishing very little. It's really all indians with no functional chiefs, but a whole lot of headresses.

I believe the bigger picture here is to implement an NCO progression program, initially for prior service enlisted. Those folks would then establish themselves in the org with the purpose of cleaning up the non-functional mess that is CAP. The CCMSgt has explained his vision for the NCO corps a few times & I respect that view. I believe the next step is open up to non-prior service starting at E-1. And candidates for officership would be selected from the enlisted pool according to legitimate standards, and undergo legitimate training to become actually competent and functional officers.

As I said though, it's a stepped process. I can't assure you that's what's going on here, but it's my personal opinion and my hope that it is.
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SarDragon
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« Reply #112 on: August 10, 2008, 07:03:43 AM »

Currently, ONLY NCOs are permitted to wear enlisted rank in CAP, and E-4s in services other than the AF are considered NCOs.

Unless I'm mistaken, Army E-4s who are Specialists are not considered NCOs, while those wearing Corporal stripes are NCOs.

The difference in pay is negligible if it exists at all, while the difference in other ways is wide.

Of course, I could be wrong ...

Jack

You are indeed correct. My statement stands as amended. I sit corrected.
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Dave Bowles
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DNall
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« Reply #113 on: August 10, 2008, 08:04:25 AM »

CPL is a PSEUDO-NCO in the Army. The difference between CPL & SPC is a CPL is a mid-grade E-4 assigned duties commonly associated with a junior NCO - generally meaning leading troops. They are not technically an NCO though. The bigger deal is both are E-4 and get paid the same. Being a CPL is position related and can be removed at any time just cause I feel like it. You also don't have to be a CPL before you go to SGT, you can go straight from SPC.

There now, doesn't that just make all kinds of sense? It's the Army for ya.
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cap235629
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« Reply #114 on: August 10, 2008, 09:34:39 AM »

CPL is a PSEUDO-NCO in the Army. The difference between CPL & SPC is a CPL is a mid-grade E-4 assigned duties commonly associated with a junior NCO - generally meaning leading troops. They are not technically an NCO though. The bigger deal is both are E-4 and get paid the same. Being a CPL is position related and can be removed at any time just cause I feel like it. You also don't have to be a CPL before you go to SGT, you can go straight from SPC.

There now, doesn't that just make all kinds of sense? It's the Army for ya.

The difference between a corporal and specialist is a HUGE difference under the UCMJ.  An NCO is an NCO, period.  It makes all the difference in the world.  This is especially true for MP's
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Bill Hobbs, Major, CAP
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AlphaSigOU
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« Reply #115 on: August 10, 2008, 02:18:24 PM »

OK... for all o' youse who went to the NB meeting... how's about a summary of what passed and did not?
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Lt Col Charles E. (Chuck) Corway, CAP
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« Reply #116 on: August 10, 2008, 03:03:52 PM »

read back up the thread.  Already been done.
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BillB
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« Reply #117 on: August 10, 2008, 03:09:05 PM »

But the previous post didn't list any of the Saturday Board activity.
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Gil Robb Wilson # 19
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« Reply #118 on: August 10, 2008, 03:16:39 PM »

Just awards and the banquet according to the schedule for Saturday.
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JohnKachenmeister
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« Reply #119 on: August 10, 2008, 03:35:30 PM »

CPL is a PSEUDO-NCO in the Army. The difference between CPL & SPC is a CPL is a mid-grade E-4 assigned duties commonly associated with a junior NCO - generally meaning leading troops. They are not technically an NCO though. The bigger deal is both are E-4 and get paid the same. Being a CPL is position related and can be removed at any time just cause I feel like it. You also don't have to be a CPL before you go to SGT, you can go straight from SPC.

There now, doesn't that just make all kinds of sense? It's the Army for ya.

Beg to differ, Dennis.

A corporal in the Army is an NCO.  He can give a legally-binding order to a subordinate, and a specialist cannot.  The UCMJ allows for prosecution for failing to oney the orders of a "Superior non-commissioned officer," not just someone at a higher pay grade.

You can be promoted from specialist to sergeant.  If, however, I assigned a specialist to a sergeant's vacancy pending his promotion, I would cut orders to laterally appoint him/her a corporal, so that his/her orders had some weight.
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  The Lobby  |  Topic: 2008 Summer Board Video
 


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