Some interesting info on JROTC

[RiverAux]

While looking for something else, I came across this evaluaion of the JROTC program: http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/expectmore/detail/10003233.2006.html

Note that they have managed to more than double the number of units since 1990 and that they are spending on average $674 per year in 2006 for each student and had a total of 486K cadets in 2005-6 across all types.   

They say that it "complements" other programs like CAP, which I'm not sure I agree with. 

[CAP006]

I dont agree anymore than you man.

[Ricochet13]

"The Junior Reserve Officer's Training Corps (JROTC) is a comprehensive academic and citizenship program for high school students. It complements . . . other citizenship programs, such as the Civil Air Patrol, Sea Cadets, Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts."

I removed "other academic programs for at-risk youth" as I don't consider CAP's Cadet Program to be aimed at "at-risk" youth in the sense of the statement.

Given that, what specifically do you take issues with regarding the statements about JROTC?

[RiverAux]

That statement is in answer to whether to this question:

Is the program designed so that it is not redundant or duplicative of any other Federal, state, local or private effort?

I see no way in which JROTC complements CAP's cadet program.  Having a JROTC unit nearby does nothing to benefit CAP's cadet program and where both CAP and JROTC detachments are found in the same town they are direct competitors for recruits. 

I'm not making a CAP is better than JROTC statement, just stating the fact that it is very difficult to recruit CAP cadets from a school that has a JROTC program because JROTC, and obviously especially the AFJROTC, overlaps quite a bit with what a cadet from get from CAP and has the advantage of being much easier to participate in since it is in the school.   

So, yes, JROTC is generally duplicative of another Federal program (and private), namely CAP. 

[mikeylikey]

^ Flying JROTC actually landed my unit 7 new cadets.  We are actually going to start doing "joint ops" when school starts back up after summer.  AFJROTC and CAP do seem to compliment each other in my area.  Even before we started flying them, we always had about 10 cadets in both programs every year. 

I work with the Military Science Instructor about twice a month, and we have become good friends.  (He is a retired Lt Col, and actually has become sort of a mentor for me, even though he is AF and I am Army......and we find ourselves at the O-Club most every Friday).  I also work with local JROTC units (Army, Air Force, Marine) as a feeder into the Senior ROTC program at the University.  This past year alone, I along with my counterparts in AF and Navy ROTC had two "shadow cadet" days each semester where the high school Cadets came to the University and sat through presentations, BBQ's, and other activities to get them interested in Senior ROTC. 

If you have local JROTC units nearby, go talk the Military Science Instructors and see if you can do something similar, as CAP Offers some activities that JROTC does not, and JROTC offers some activities CAP does not.  No reason not to work together, as we all are doing it to make better and more responsible adults in both programs.    

[JayT]

That statement is in answer to whether to this question:

Is the program designed so that it is not redundant or duplicative of any other Federal, state, local or private effort?

I see no way in which JROTC complements CAP's cadet program.  Having a JROTC unit nearby does nothing to benefit CAP's cadet program and where both CAP and JROTC detachments are found in the same town they are direct competitors for recruits. 

I'm not making a CAP is better than JROTC statement, just stating the fact that it is very difficult to recruit CAP cadets from a school that has a JROTC program because JROTC, and obviously especially the AFJROTC, overlaps quite a bit with what a cadet from get from CAP and has the advantage of being much easier to participate in since it is in the school.   

So, yes, JROTC is generally duplicative of another Federal program (and private), namely CAP. 

With that attitude, you're not going to.

Simply put, you're not in competiton for Cadets. Many JROTC cadets are doing it for the elective credit. If you don't have anything to offer them, then you don't deserve them.

[RiverAux]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that JROTC should be done away with or not allowed where there are CAP units.  Quite frankly, we aren't funded well enough to handle all the cadets they have in any case.  Yes, CAP will bring in some JROTC cadets every now and again, and we will also lose CAP cadets to JROTC. 

However, if you don't think that they are competitors with CAP for cadets, you're naive.   Anywhere kids have a choice between each program, in the vast majority of cases they will choose one or the other (a few do both, but not many).  That is the essence of competition. 

Again, I'm not saying it is good or bad for CAP, just that it exists. 

[SAR-EMT1]

I wouldn't say JROTC compliments us. I'd say it sucks up the availible pool of recruits.

[Gunner C]

WIWAC we had about 20 AFJROTC cadets in our squadron.  The book that they used for their curriculum were nothing more than our Phase 2 books with a different cover (remember when each achievement had its own book?)  I hope they've moved past that and they have their own stuff.

GC

[mikeylikey]

WIWAC we had about 20 AFJROTC cadets in our squadron.  The book that they used for their curriculum were nothing more than our Phase 2 books with a different cover (remember when each achievement had its own book?)  I hope they've moved past that and they have their own stuff.

GC

No.....just rehashed and reformated. 

[Gunner C]

WIWAC we had about 20 AFJROTC cadets in our squadron.  The book that they used for their curriculum were nothing more than our Phase 2 books with a different cover (remember when each achievement had its own book?)  I hope they've moved past that and they have their own stuff.

GC

No.....just rehashed and reformated. 

Well there you have it - that's what the AF needs us for - a source for their AFJROTC books.  (Don't we own the copyrights on that stuff or is that part of our Aux On/Aux Off status?)

[Pylon]

Depends how you look at it and who wrote it.   If it was written by a government employee on Uncle Sam's timecard (as opposed to a Civil Air Patrol, Inc. employee) it's not protected by copyright law.  Info.  So if AETC, CAP-USAF, USAF or some other gov't office generated the content for those books, there is no copyright.

Either way, though, I'd doubt that any government agency or corporation would re-publish the content of another organization's materials without appropriate permissions, if needed.

[PhoenixRisen]

Direct from one of the first few pages of a CAP Aerospace Module (from e-Services):

All rights reserved. Printed in the United States of America.

This document was prepared for limited distribution by Civil Air Patrol. It may not be eproduced in whole or in part without permission of Civil Air Patrol National Headquarters, MaxwellAFB,AL 36112-6332.

[SarDragon]

Depends how you look at it and who wrote it.   If it was written by a government employee on Uncle Sam's timecard (as opposed to a Civil Air Patrol, Inc. employee) it's not protected by copyright law.  Info.  So if AETC, CAP-USAF, USAF or some other gov't office generated the content for those books, there is no copyright.

Either way, though, I'd doubt that any government agency or corporation would re-publish the content of another organization's materials without appropriate permissions, if needed.

It can still be proprietary to the corporation, and apparently is, according to the quote above..

[SJFedor]

But would our NHQ honestly say no to big brother blue if they wanted to use our stuff?

Doubtful.