Anyone familiar with HR1333?

[Frenchie]

Border Patrol and Customs (now essentially one and the same) both had their own air resources years before DHS ever came to be.  Certainly both have bigger budgets since 9/11 and more aircraft now, but it's not as if they are inventing something that didn't previously exist.

[RiverAux]

Actually they are.   They aren't buying little planes here and there but organizing large scale aviation units. 

[Flying Pig]

If a federal agency's flying resources are stretched to the limit, they may welcome the addition of a cheap resource to augment what they already have.  It's literally a way to do more with less, which rarely happens.

We're assuming that DHS may be bucking on this because they are building their own air force of light aircraft, both fixed and rotary.  Recognizing that CAP could potentially do some of those jobs (but not all) could make it more difficult to get more money to expand their Homeland Security Air Wings.  And while we are only a minor potential threat to DHS, these Air Wings are a large potential threat to CAP.  Depending on the extent to which they expand these throughout the country it may negatively impact the need for the sort of service that CAP can provide. 

And here it is.  We aren't a threat to DHS, they are a threat to us.   Bravo.....thats the argument we need to go with.  We need to get in on the action before its to late to play.  Some of you guys never seem to amaze me. 

[Flying Pig]

Actually they are.   They aren't buying little planes here and there but organizing large scale aviation units. 

Being someone involved in law enforcement aviation ( I know, that offends some of you)  But exactly where are they organizing these "large scale aviation units?" 

[RiverAux]

Last I heard they have organized three "Homeland Security Air Wings" along the northern border and had plans for 2 more.  I can easily see them expanding the concept beyond border operations to other disaster response missions in the interior.  We've discussed it in past threads which probably should be ressurected if further explanation is necessary.

[Frenchie]

Those air wings you speak of have 2 helicopters and 1 fixed wing aircraft each.  They are primarily used for interdiction.  It's not really different than what they are doing in the south, but on a much smaller scale. They have and will continue to have far more aircraft in the south.  Even in the south, ICE has very few light observation planes.  Most of their aircraft are fast planes like jets, turboprops, blackhawk helicopters, etc.  They are not at all suited for the types of missions CAP is capable of doing.

[Capt Rivera]

Those air wings you speak of have 2 helicopters and 1 fixed wing aircraft each.  They are primarily used for interdiction.  It's not really different than what they are doing in the south, but on a much smaller scale. They have and will continue to have far more aircraft in the south.  Even in the south, ICE has very few light observation planes.  Most of their aircraft are fast planes like jets, turboprops, blackhawk helicopters, etc.  They are not at all suited for the types of missions CAP is capable of doing.

Don't forget the UAVs they INTEND to fly. [Don't know if they have any airborne yet...]

[Gunner C]

Im curious.  As a Mission/CD pilot in CAP, exactly what types of missions are you guys looking for from DHS?Im curious. 

The original bill spells out the scope of what is asked for (by CAP thru authors):

...use of such personnel and resources to provide: (1) aerial reconnaissance or communications capabilities to the Border Patrol to protect against illegal entry and trafficking; and (2) capabilities to respond to an act of terrorism, natural disaster, or other man-made event by assisting in damage assessment and situational awareness, search and rescue operations, evacuations, and transporting time-sensitive materials.

Directs the Secretary to consider the Civil Air Patrol as an available resource for purposes of national preparedness and response planning activities

I would personally like to bring CAP into the mutual aid network as an AF federal resource. And build a relationship w/ FEMA for front end disaster assessment (air/grd photo recon & real time relay) & comm support (air P25).

That is currently being worked with FEMA.

Other then that I want to stay out of law enforcement or anything remote close or related to any form of it in any way. And I want to keep our primary focus on the AF primary domestic mission set - SaR/DR.

SAR and DR really aren't missions.  Our mission is reconnaissance.  What we're talking about is in which arenas are we going to employ the capabilities.

GC

[DNall]

It's a threat to the DHS budget cause its (on paper) an alternative to them buying more planes & paying for more trained crews. How can they justify UAVs at 40mil a copy & all the infrastructure to go with them when congress can waive around a study about CAP as an alternative.

I'm sure they got no problem with using CAP, but not when it's a threat to them getting what they want from congress. If that's the case, then they won't agree to it, and will set policy in such a way to prove it doesn't work for their requirements.

And, first line supervisors are meaningless. The guy you deal with on the other side at the tactical level may love CAP & everything we can do for him within his restricted budget, but he doesn't set policy & he can only use CAP within the limits imposed on him.

[RiverAux]

Thomas (the Congressional bill tracking site) still hasn't shown what the bill looks like now.  It is still showing only the original bill and doesn't have text of any ammendments.  The closest thing is that it has "(amended)" noted where it says it was voted out of subcommittee. 

Incidentally, it still hasn't gone out of two other subcommittees it was referred to.  I don't know enough about the process to know if this would hamper it moving forward from the other committee that has it though. 

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:h.r.01333:

[RiverAux]

FYI, still no action since the House bill was sent to the Senate in June.  Considering that we're running out of time on this particular Congress and the fact that not one Senator has signed on as a co-sponsor, its not looking like it will make it out of the Senate committee its in now.