Campus Officer shoots attacking student-Fresno

[Stonewall]

As a member of CAP Talk, Civil Air Patrol and a Cop, I don't think there is anything wrong with posting this article or even discussing here on CAP Talk.  I remember as a cadet when a woman was stabbed on a city bus and no one did anything except for an off-duty cop with an off-duty gun who was driving by when the bus stopped and killed the guy; we had a moral leadership discussion about it in my squadron with our chaplain.

Jokes, crime, nasty neighbors; yep, I've started a few threads myself that don't have any direct relevance to CAP, but what the hay.  VA Tech incident last year didn't have much to do with CAP but I'm sure there were several pages of discussion on CAP Talk about it.

My vote = nothing wrong with it.  We've got IT guys, military members and photographers that discuss their jobs, why can't a cop discuss theirs?

[mikeylikey]

^ Hey agree with you Kirt, but I don't agree with discussing how many people you killed in your job. 

As far as Johny K stated earlier that this is like the Club, I agree to.  However, I would be the first guy to walk over to other officers and ask them to leave the Club if they started going into details about who they killed in Iraq or Afghanistan. 

As far as the comment about some of us here not liking COPS, I will be the first to admit I don't like SOME COPS that I have met in my life.  I do respect them though, for putting their life at risk everyday. 

Like I said before, I had no problem with the original article posted by Flying Pig, but I did have a problem with his following post. 

[SoCalCAPOfficer]

I agree with Flying Pig.   This kind of post is necessary in todays world.  We work with young people and act as their role models.  Any topic that affects the safety of those young people should be a fair topic for comment.

Further, just because Flying Pig gave a personal example about suicide by cop, does not indicate to me that he was trying to brag about his expoits.  On the contrary I think it was considerate of him to share actual knowledge that most likely is a painful memory for him.

There are many things posted on this forum that are not directly CAP related, but nobody gets offended.   However, bring up legitimate law enforcement activities and they are suddenly deemed offensive.   There seems to be an undercurrent among some here, that at times, seem to have anti-law enforcement/anti-military bent.   I respect different opinions among our members on these subjects.  However, I do not think a call for a ban on the opinions of those that differ with you is in order.

[mikeylikey]

^ Once again, I could care less about the original article posted by Flying Pig.  I do care about his following post where he said he killed other people.  THIS IS NOT THE PLACE TO make everyone aware of your killing of other people. 

[Stonewall]

However, I would be the first guy to walk over to other officers and ask them to leave the Club if they started going into details about who they killed in Iraq or Afghanistan. 

I think there is a difference here though.  It's not like Flying Pig was gloating or saying something like "yeah, and when I wasted those guys", he was using it as an example.  Same thing with your description at the O Club.  If a couple of officers were bragging about taking out bad guys or comparing head shots, then I may agree with your argument.

It can also be chalked up as a way of dealing with it.  And for that, I'd listen all day long in any venue, on CAP Talk, the phone, text message, whatever helps.  Who knows.  I understand your argument, but I don't think in this case it was bad form.

[mikeylikey]

^ OK, maybe I am overreacting. 

I give up.

[Whocares]

So I could not careless about the who other argument here, but did any one else notice these statements:

The officer fell down dazed, and reached for the gun in his hip holster, but the clip fell out.

As having handled many pistols in my life and having a father as a cop, this kind of bothers me that a police department has a gun that the clip just falls out.  Any one know if this is a defect in the pistol?  Officer error?  Or failure to maintain the weapon?

Carrizales's family said the officer didn't have to shoot the teen.
"He's the baby of our family, and they took him away," his sister Elisa Ortega, 27, said today outside her mother's modest Fresno home. "They didn't have to kill him. The Taser guns, the batons they have, that should have been enough to calm the situation down."

Okay, when I was in High School many moons ago now, we had an officer that worked just the high school.  She carried a what every other officer carried:  pistol, pepper spray, and collapsable baton.  Now, I am not saying the officer was not justified in shooting, on the contrary, he was.  However, could this have been handled better with pepper spray, a baton, or a traser?  Not knowing the demographics of this high school, should the high school officers be allowed to carry a pistol?  A backup pistol?

Ortega said police have refused to tell the family where Carrizales' body is being held while they investigate the shooting.

I also find this kind of sad.  I mean, they refuse to tell the family where their boy is being held?  Did they at least allow the family to view the body?  

"We still don't know anything about what happened. Everybody was text messaging each other yesterday in class trying to figure out what was going on."

What has happened to high school these days?  Geez, if we would have had cell phones and text messaging like today, I am sure the teachers would not have allowed them.

[Stonewall]

So I could not careless about the who other argument here, but did any one else notice these statements:

The officer fell down dazed, and reached for the gun in his hip holster, but the clip fell out.

As having handled many pistols in my life and having a father as a cop, this kind of bothers me that a police department has a gun that the clip just falls out.  Any one know if this is a defect in the pistol?  Officer error?  Or failure to maintain the weapon?

I don't like to Monday morning quarterback without hearing it from the officer himself, but I'm guessing the mag release may have been inadvertantly hit when fumbling (dazed) for his gun.  I've seen worse things happen that make me cringe; and that's just on the range.

[SJFedor]

I was gonna try and stay out of this one, but....

the facts are this:

1) the officer had a split second to make a decision when another person was clearly causing them harm/attempting to kill them

2) the officer reacted in the best way that he thought appropriate.


The kid already had the officer down from the first hit. a baton wouldn't be too effective while you're on the ground, and pepper spray might work, but might not. a taser would have been good, but not all officers in all departments carry them. some departments only allow supervisors to carry the tasers, others, everyone carries them.

He made a tough decision, and the outcome sucked, but at that point, it was the officer or the person trying to kill him.

[Whocares]

pepper spray might work, but might not. a taser would have been good, but not all officers in all departments carry them. some departments only allow supervisors to carry the tasers, others, everyone carries them.

He made a tough decision, and the outcome sucked, but at that point, it was the officer or the person trying to kill him.

Okay, may be you misread me.  I was not condeming the officer.  He was fully justified and right in shooting him.

But, looking at the board picture, should school cops be carrying tasers?  Should they even have a real weapon on them?  After all, there are some universities that the campus officers do not even carry a real weapon, they only carry a taser. 

What I was trying to do with this question is:

1)  Get the topic back on

2)  See what cadets think about their safety in their schools

3)  See what cadets think about police in their schools

[mikeylikey]

The article goes into very little REAL detail.  Like was the Campus COP (rental cop from what I understand) uniformed.  Did he start the altercation?  Was there prior incidents between the people.  What is this bat the kid supposedly had.  It could have been a stick for all we know.  By the time the cop got his second weapon of his leg, I am sure he could have also got pepper spray out??

This has nothing to do with CAP, or CAP Cadets.  How does this article help CAP Cadets out?  Seriously, how does it.....someone needs to explain that to me.  At most I will accept that the story says to CAP Cadets.....stay away from Campus Cops. 

IT does not go into what warning signs to look for, or what to do in similar situations. 

I am shocked, that no other students helped the Campus COP out.  I am also surprised that they brought into play the kids prior of Carrying a knife years ago.  The media is really good at vilifying individuals. 

No one here knows the kid, or the Campus Cop.  Until someone from that school comes on board and says something to the difference, I am skeptical of the whole situation.  What really makes me skeptical is that the body has yet to be released?  You have to ask yourself why! 

[Stonewall]

This has nothing to do with CAP, or CAP Cadets.  How does this article help CAP Cadets out?  Seriously, how does it.....someone needs to explain that to me.  At most I will accept that the story says to CAP Cadets.....stay away from Campus Cops.

This is the lobby, pretty much any discussion goes as long as it's done respectfully and doesn't violate any CAP Talk policies.

[mikeylikey]

^ The original poster and his supporters said this article helps cadets out and that is why it was posted.  All I want to know is how it helps Cadets out?!?!  That was their reasoning for posting it.  I know the lobby is for threads not directly related to the other areas on CAPTALK.   

[MIKE]

Ding... Thread done.