Mistaken for Active Air Force?

[2ltAlexD]

Hi there you guys! I heard this will happen. What should you do when this happens? Do you just say well I'm in the Civil Air Patrol which is part of the Air Force?

[Major Carrales]

Say "thank you" on behalf of the US Air Force, explain what CAP is all about.  Ask them if they want to join.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Since in an earlier post you said you were totally blind, you missed a GREAT opportunity to have some fun...

"Yes, I'm a pilot.  I fly the F-117.  They use blind guys to fly the stealth aircraft on the theory that if I can't see them, they can't see me.  Seems to work, I think."

[RiverAux]

Depends on the situation a little bit, but I agree with Maj C.

[mynetdude]

LOLz

I have BEEN asked if I was a "pilot" and I would reply "what kind?" because there are different kinds.. USAF pilots and airline pilots.  And I so wanted to reply that I was both, but I declined

I do give them something to laugh about for kicks though, they only ask because I have so much grey hair and wearing USAF uniform when I am in regulation for weight... its too funny because I wear hearing aids and can't even get a PPL.  The fun stops when I point out my hearing aids and they go *duh*.

[DC]

I have been mistaken for AD Air Force, Army (while in BDUs) and and asked if I was an Air Force Academy cadet. I just politely correct them, and tell them a little about CAP. In blues I can somewhat understand the confusion, but in BDUs I just don't get it. The big blue and white CIVIL AIR PATROL displayed on the BDU blose would be a tip off I think.... Not to mention that the Air Force is about the only ones wearing BDUs anymore, and they are beginning to phase them out...

[davedove]

... but in BDUs I just don't get it. The big blue and white CIVIL AIR PATROL displayed on the BDU blose would be a tip off I think.... Not to mention that the Air Force is about the only ones wearing BDUs anymore, and they are beginning to phase them out...

Your average Joe Blow on the street doesn't know that.  They see camouflage and think Army.

[Eclipse]

I have been mistaken for AD Air Force, Army (while in BDUs) and and asked if I was an Air Force Academy cadet. I just politely correct them, and tell them a little about CAP. In blues I can somewhat understand the confusion, but in BDUs I just don't get it. The big blue and white CIVIL AIR PATROL displayed on the BDU blose would be a tip off I think.... Not to mention that the Air Force is about the only ones wearing BDUs anymore, and they are beginning to phase them out...

BDU's are not the exclusive province of the USAF, there are plenty of Navy people still wearing them - saw a couple of enlisted this weekend, Marines, too, I believe, and its pretty common to see desert BDU's on people both deployed and coming home.

As to the tapes, people don't pay attention to details like that, they see a shape that vaguely matches some mental stereotype and go into full assumption mode.

In fact, it looks like the Chicago homeless are catching on to that.  I saw a guy on the street in poorly mis-matched ACU's, with non-military beige work boots and no insignia, wandering around near Sears Tower  yesterday. 

Boots unlaced, looking like he has slept more than one night in the gear.  He was just kind of milling about aimlessly, trolling IMHO, for someone to ask him if he needed help.

[SSgt Rudin]

Tonight the guy at the McDonald's drive threw asked me if I was an Army Police Officer  My truck has an Mini-Phantom LED on the rear view mirror for VFD, and I was in BDU's. After I explained everything as quickly as possible (there were cars behind me) he still didn't get it.

[jb512]

I had a lady at the gas station the other day call me a Captain while staring at my epaulets.  It took me a minute, but I can only assume she thought the "CAP" was what that meant.

[PhoenixRisen]

BDU's are not the exclusive province of the USAF, there are plenty of Navy people still wearing them - saw a couple of enlisted this weekend, Marines, too, I believe, and its pretty common to see desert BDU's on people both deployed and coming home.

If so, they mustn't have gotten the memo.  Marines were out of traditional-style cammies (both woodland and desert) a long, long time ago. 

[mynetdude]

I have been mistaken in a number of ways other than just "real" USAF "pilot" .

I had a CAP member who is a LtCol and has been in CAP for almost 19 years, she thought I was a cadet .  What more disguises could I come up with?

[afgeo4]

BDU's are not the exclusive province of the USAF, there are plenty of Navy people still wearing them - saw a couple of enlisted this weekend, Marines, too, I believe, and its pretty common to see desert BDU's on people both deployed and coming home.

If so, they mustn't have gotten the memo.  Marines were out of traditional-style cammies (both woodland and desert) a long, long time ago. 

Marines have been wearing MARPAT uniforms for years and BDUs/DCUs have been officially phased out and are not authorized for wear. BDUs/DCUs are also phased out for the Army. I believe the ACU wear date was sometime late last year or early this year. The Navy and Air Force are the only ones that still wear the BDU/DCU uniforms and they're both phasing in new ones, although I think USAF is ahead of USN of that one. USCG stopped wear of BDU a while ago as well. They now wear their new blue utilities while in CONUS  , but may still be wearing DCUs while in CENTCOM AOR. I'm not sure on that one.

[DC]

I had a lady at the gas station the other day call me a Captain while staring at my epaulets.  It took me a minute, but I can only assume she thought the "CAP" was what that meant.

What rank are you currently? I went into Burger King one time before a meeting and the lady at the register was sirring me like crazy.

[jimmydeanno]

[Marines have been wearing MARPAT uniforms for years and BDUs/DCUs have been officially phased out and are not authorized for wear. BDUs/DCUs are also phased out for the Army. I believe the ACU wear date was sometime late last year or early this year. The Navy and Air Force are the only ones that still wear the BDU/DCU uniforms and they're both phasing in new ones, although I think USAF is ahead of USN of that one. USCG stopped wear of BDU a while ago as well. They now wear their new blue utilities while in CONUS  , but may still be wearing DCUs while in CENTCOM AOR. I'm not sure on that one.

The last Marine I saw in BDUs was about 2 years ago aboard the USS Theodore Roosevelt.  The ships police (I don't know what they are called officially, MPs, SPs, Security Forces???) 

But as for being confused with Active Air Force, it happens all the time, the only time I really see it as a problem is if a) you're doing something stupid that would bring negative attention or b) you are intentionally trying to be identified as a 'real' officer to do item a.

You can't explain to everyone all the time, so as long as your acting professionally the worst that happens is they think - "Wow, those Air Force guys are really nice."  If you have the time and the person actually wants to know, then just courteously explain what CAP is (not in a demeaning or "are you stupid" way) and carry on.

[James Shaw]

I was on Active Duty in the Navy and stationed in Misawa Japan with Naval Security Group. I was an E5 at the time and a member of the CAP at the same time. This was an Air Force Base with a small (200) Navy Detachment for NSGA and VP Squadron. I had my CAP uniform in my locker in the barracks and had one in my flight bag and was confronted by my Barracks officer for having an unauthorized Officers Uniform in my room. I had to prove and explain my membership in the CAP. Not to long after that I was on my way to a meeting for CAP and was walking out of my barracks and was confronted by the OOD as to why I was in an unauthorized and impersinating an officer as well. I had to prove myself again. On the same day while I was walking to the meeting I was saluted by an AF E9 I knew from the hill (where we worked) and when he saw who it was he also confronted me.

I had only been in for a few months at the time. After about 6 months people got use to seeing me in the uniform and stopped the challenges. When my 2nd LT Promotion came around it was in the local Misawa AFB news and for about a year I was given some grief from my fellow Navy Air Crew folks.

[davedove]

Does anyone think the average member of the public is aware of the phase out dates for uniforms for the different services?

They see a camouflage uniform and they automatically think military.  And they probably will assume Army or Marines, as that is what most people think when the see the camo.

[Psicorp]

While waiting around in front of the state capital building preparing to do a wreath laying, the Wing CC, Wing XO, my unit commander, and I were approached by a older lady who asked us if we were Marines.     Yeah, the general public is generally clueless, but we still appreciate their patriotism.

[James Shaw]

I do not think the general public is aware. I was at a local airport preparing to do a CD mission. The FBO is pretty close to a Delta Terminal and I went to use the facilities before we took off. I was approached by an older woman (70's or so) and was thanked for my service in the Navy in my CAP blues.

She told me her grandson was in Irag and wanted to hug anyone she saw in uniform, I let her and she smiled and walked away.

[MIKE]

I got a Sir at Applebee's on the way back from district conference this January.  I was in Tropical Blue Long with "Windbreaker"... which is much less obvious than when I was wearing it in CAP "Light-weight Blue Jacket" mode, since it now has these large metal gold bars on it with little red A's in the center.

Once we were outside my mother asked if it was because of the uniform.  I just said probably, and didn't think much of it.  I'm not trying to pass myself off as an Ensign, even if I do look the part.  I just wear my uniform IAW the relevant COMDTINSTs.

[mikeylikey]

I got a Sir at Applebee's...

I love Applebee's!   

[Grumpy]

I have been mistaken in a number of ways other than just "real" USAF "pilot" .

I had a CAP member who is a LtCol and has been in CAP for almost 19 years, she thought I was a cadet .  What more disguises could I come up with?

Come on, I find that hard to believe.  You are kidding, right?

[mynetdude]

I have been mistaken in a number of ways other than just "real" USAF "pilot" .

I had a CAP member who is a LtCol and has been in CAP for almost 19 years, she thought I was a cadet .  What more disguises could I come up with?

Come on, I find that hard to believe.  You are kidding, right?

Unfortunately its true, that was before I was a 2d Lt though. I had to wear the CAP cutouts on my AF blues and I had my cutouts just alittle too high cuz cadets wear theirs higher up on the collar than seniors do.  I kind of find it hard to believe that she even did that to me but you'd have to know her .

[Nomex Maximus]

Last year I was out on an actual SAR mission. When I got down I drove back home and needed to stop off and get gas. I was still in my flightsuit and the nifty green jacket with my new lieutenant bars. When I went in to pay for my gas the woman at the cash register asked me if I was in the military. I explained that no, I was a civilian volunteer member of civil air patrol. She asked me what I did and I explained that we do search and rescue missions for the Air Force. She then replied a bit about how her son was in Iraq with the Army. I replied that she must be very proud of him, and of course she said she was and I told her to thank him for me for his service and she ended the converstation with me by saying, "And thank you for your service."

[jimmydeanno]

I had to wear the CAP cutouts on my AF blues and I had my cutouts just alittle too high cuz cadets wear theirs higher up on the collar than seniors do.

[JoeTomasone]

A few weeks ago I was on my way to conduct a Squadron visit (which as a member of Group staff I am required to do), when I realized that I had forgotten to shave.   It was too late to turn around, so I stopped at a Walgreens to pick up a cheapie razor.    When the cashier rung me up, it seemed like the math was wrong, but I was in a hurry and figured it was me who wasn't estimating the tax and all properly.   I checked the receipt once I got in the car and saw that I had a military discount.    Now, I was in blues with the Service Coat, so I can much more understand that since there is nothing that says "Civil Air Patrol" save the "CAP" on the epaulet based grade.   

[DC]

I have been mistaken in a number of ways other than just "real" USAF "pilot" .

I had a CAP member who is a LtCol and has been in CAP for almost 19 years, she thought I was a cadet .  What more disguises could I come up with?

Come on, I find that hard to believe.  You are kidding, right?

Unfortunately its true, that was before I was a 2d Lt though. I had to wear the CAP cutouts on my AF blues and I had my cutouts just alittle too high cuz cadets wear theirs higher up on the collar than seniors do.  I kind of find it hard to believe that she even did that to me but you'd have to know her .

There is a distinct difference between SMWOG and C/AB grade insignia on BDUs. Cadets wear metal cutouts, SMs wear cloth. And they are supposed to be in the same place, don't know where you got that one from...

[SSgt Rudin]

I have been mistaken in a number of ways other than just "real" USAF "pilot" .

I had a CAP member who is a LtCol and has been in CAP for almost 19 years, she thought I was a cadet .  What more disguises could I come up with?

Come on, I find that hard to believe.  You are kidding, right?

Unfortunately its true, that was before I was a 2d Lt though. I had to wear the CAP cutouts on my AF blues and I had my cutouts just alittle too high cuz cadets wear theirs higher up on the collar than seniors do.  I kind of find it hard to believe that she even did that to me but you'd have to know her .

There is a distinct difference between SMWOG and C/AB grade insignia on BDUs. Cadets wear metal cutouts, SMs wear cloth. And they are supposed to be in the same place, don't know where you got that one from...

But he specifically said Blues... So the only difference between a SMWOG and a C/AB is the color of the name tag.

[jb512]

I have been mistaken in a number of ways other than just "real" USAF "pilot" .

I had a CAP member who is a LtCol and has been in CAP for almost 19 years, she thought I was a cadet .  What more disguises could I come up with?

Come on, I find that hard to believe.  You are kidding, right?

Unfortunately its true, that was before I was a 2d Lt though. I had to wear the CAP cutouts on my AF blues and I had my cutouts just alittle too high cuz cadets wear theirs higher up on the collar than seniors do.  I kind of find it hard to believe that she even did that to me but you'd have to know her .

They do???

I thought centered and resting on the line, but not over, applied to everybody...

[mynetdude]

I have been mistaken in a number of ways other than just "real" USAF "pilot" .

I had a CAP member who is a LtCol and has been in CAP for almost 19 years, she thought I was a cadet .  What more disguises could I come up with?

Come on, I find that hard to believe.  You are kidding, right?

Unfortunately its true, that was before I was a 2d Lt though. I had to wear the CAP cutouts on my AF blues and I had my cutouts just alittle too high cuz cadets wear theirs higher up on the collar than seniors do.  I kind of find it hard to believe that she even did that to me but you'd have to know her .

They do???

I thought centered and resting on the line, but not over, applied to everybody...

Thats what I said, at the time regulation seemed to be a bit confusing (and still is) for at least cadet vs senior uniforms I thought the cutouts/metal grades are supposed to be in the same place regardless of who is wearing them but then what do I know.

Anyway that is resolved now, I now wear the U.S. cutouts and I rarely take them off unless they are to be dry cleaned.

[SAR-EMT1]

Its foolish but the difference is this:
Seniors are to CENTER the CAP/US

Cadets place it X inches above the bottom of the lapel. Not "centered"

I however centered it as a cadet.

[mynetdude]

Its foolish but the difference is this:
Seniors are to CENTER the CAP/US

Cadets place it X inches above the bottom of the lapel. Not "centered"

I however centered it as a cadet.

Ok that is starting to make sense now, I remember the discussion about how my CAP/US wasn't centered. Are you saying centered on the seam? IIRC you had to have the bottom of your lapel centered on the seam or am I mixing the two again?

Yes I don't get it, why do cadets have to wear their lapels differently than we do? We already know they are cadets because they are wearing stripes and cadets do not wear the U.S. lapel anyway.

[jb512]

According to 39-1, cadets and senior members wear their lapel devices halfway up the seam, resting on but not over it and parallel with the ground.

So, the bottom corner of the device should be right on the seam, halfway between each edge.  Goes for seniors and cadets.

[mynetdude]

According to 39-1, cadets and senior members wear their lapel devices halfway up the seam, resting on but not over it and parallel with the ground.

So, the bottom corner of the device should be right on the seam, halfway between each edge.  Goes for seniors and cadets.

seemed to me at one time it was different for some reason.

[JayT]

According to 39-1, cadets and senior members wear their lapel devices halfway up the seam, resting on but not over it and parallel with the ground.

So, the bottom corner of the device should be right on the seam, halfway between each edge.  Goes for seniors and cadets.

seemed to me at one time it was different for some reason.

You're wrong. It's always been like that.

[jeders]

I've been mistaken for Army, and Air Force many many times.

One night I'm heading to a meeting and discover my battery's dead. So I go to a neighboring apartment and ask if I can get a jump. When the lady opened the door her dog ran out and she asked if I trained dogs in the Army.

Another time, I'm on a mission and have to put gas in my car. While I'm standing at the pump, this girl who couldn't be more than 16 or 17 came over to me and was flirting with me until I explained I wasn't active duty. Then she left.

This one is my favorite though. Sometimes after meetings I go to Whataburger for dinner. While I'm waiting for my order this man walks up to me and says that he hates the war in Iraq, but he supports the troops and thanked me for my service. I said thank you and started to explain that I wasn't active duty but rather CAP, but by then he had already turned around.

I've been mistaken for real military many times, those are just a few.

[Flying Pig]

I have been a couple of times.  I was at the counter at an AMPM paying for a soda when an Air NG SSgt came in with his BDU's on and said "Hello Sir", then sorta gave a double take and an odd squint.   I just stated, "Im with Civil Air Patrol".  He just said, "OH, OK, I was wondering....."    Nothing to drastic though.  Ive had people ask what kind of jets I fly, etc.  When I tell them Cessna 182's, I get a strange look.  Then I just explain CAP a little.

[2ltAlexD]

Very interesting stories you guys! I think what we do is serving our country alot though even if it's not the regular Air Force.

[mynetdude]

According to 39-1, cadets and senior members wear their lapel devices halfway up the seam, resting on but not over it and parallel with the ground.

So, the bottom corner of the device should be right on the seam, halfway between each edge.  Goes for seniors and cadets.

seemed to me at one time it was different for some reason.

You're wrong. It's always been like that.

I never said it was that way at one time I said it "seemed" because I do recall being told it was slightly different for cadets... I'm getting tired of the "you're wrong" slam dunk.

TBH yes if I said it WAS that way it would be wrong and I'd know it too, ah oh well I give up trying to explain *disappears*.

[mikeylikey]

This one is my favorite though. Sometimes after meetings I go to Whataburger for dinner. While I'm waiting for my order this man walks up to me and says that he hates the war in Iraq, but he supports the troops and thanked me for my service. I said thank you and started to explain that I wasn't active duty but rather CAP, but by then he had already turned around.

First, I love Whataburger, are you from Texas or Oklahoma?

[jb512]

According to 39-1, cadets and senior members wear their lapel devices halfway up the seam, resting on but not over it and parallel with the ground.

So, the bottom corner of the device should be right on the seam, halfway between each edge.  Goes for seniors and cadets.

seemed to me at one time it was different for some reason.

You're wrong. It's always been like that.

I never said it was that way at one time I said it "seemed" because I do recall being told it was slightly different for cadets... I'm getting tired of the "you're wrong" slam dunk.

TBH yes if I said it WAS that way it would be wrong and I'd know it too, ah oh well I give up trying to explain *disappears*.

A quick check of the regs always dispels the "I was told" disclaimer.

[jeders]

This one is my favorite though. Sometimes after meetings I go to Whataburger for dinner. While I'm waiting for my order this man walks up to me and says that he hates the war in Iraq, but he supports the troops and thanked me for my service. I said thank you and started to explain that I wasn't active duty but rather CAP, but by then he had already turned around.

First, I love Whataburger, are you from Texas or Oklahoma?

I live in Texas.

[afgeo4]

Its foolish but the difference is this:
Seniors are to CENTER the CAP/US

Cadets place it X inches above the bottom of the lapel. Not "centered"

I however centered it as a cadet.

Are you applying regulations for different service coats? Most cadets center their CAP cutouts on the OLD coat. While Seniors are only authorized the NEW coat and have to align the CAP to the seam. I believe cadets who wear the new coat do the same.

[mynetdude]

Its foolish but the difference is this:
Seniors are to CENTER the CAP/US

Cadets place it X inches above the bottom of the lapel. Not "centered"

I however centered it as a cadet.

Are you applying regulations for different service coats? Most cadets center their CAP cutouts on the OLD coat. While Seniors are only authorized the NEW coat and have to align the CAP to the seam. I believe cadets who wear the new coat do the same.

hmm I guess that makes sense now

[DC]

This one is my favorite though. Sometimes after meetings I go to Whataburger for dinner. While I'm waiting for my order this man walks up to me and says that he hates the war in Iraq, but he supports the troops and thanked me for my service. I said thank you and started to explain that I wasn't active duty but rather CAP, but by then he had already turned around.

First, I love Whataburger, are you from Texas or Oklahoma?

They have them here is North Florida too...

Its foolish but the difference is this:
Seniors are to CENTER the CAP/US

Cadets place it X inches above the bottom of the lapel. Not "centered"

I however centered it as a cadet.

Are you applying regulations for different service coats? Most cadets center their CAP cutouts on the OLD coat. While Seniors are only authorized the NEW coat and have to align the CAP to the seam. I believe cadets who wear the new coat do the same.

For what its worth, most cadets I have seen have the new coat by now. And, yes, the placement of cutouts is the same.

[SDF_Specialist]

I can honestly say that no one has ever mistaken me for a member of the AF. Now I have been asked where the ARMY has stationed me. Unfortunately, no recruits after I tell them about CAP. I wonder where the Army would station me?

[SKYKING607]

Here's one for the "books:"  Try having a WWII vet stare at your uniform, notice the grey shoulder epaulets and comment, "Confederate Air Patrol?"  Trust me....that made my day!

[SAR-EMT1]

Ive never been confused for RM and thanked or saluted by anyone or anything good... however...


one day while i was at my job a lady threw a handfull of pepples at me, called me a baby killer and said I should go back to the Marines and not show my faceamong the public. I literally had to run like hell for my engine because she chased me screaming obsenities. Thing is though, I was in a blue station shirt with the SOL and the maltese cross everywhere and black EMS pants. I was also wearing a black ball cap with EMT on it. I live in IL and the closest Marine Barracks is probably in Chicago at NS Great Lakes. Three hours north of me.     

[mikeylikey]

one day while i was at my job a lady threw a handfull of pepples at me, called me a baby killer and said I should go back to the Marines and not show my faceamong the public.

Ya.......psycho!  You should have thrown the pebbles back and said go back to the metal hospital. 

Man.....that blows.

[davedove]

one day while i was at my job a lady threw a handfull of pepples at me, called me a baby killer and said I should go back to the Marines and not show my faceamong the public.

Ya.......psycho!  You should have thrown the pebbles back and said go back to the metal hospital. 

Man.....that blows.

Actually, you should have called the police right then and there.  Yelling at you is one thing, but as soon as she started throwing things, it became a crime.

[nesagsar]

There is a Marine Reserve unit in Peoria. My friend is a Lance Corporal Combat Engineer and he drills there. He was also a Cadet Officer in my squadron when we were in.

[mynetdude]

Ive never been confused for RM and thanked or saluted by anyone or anything good... however...


one day while i was at my job a lady threw a handfull of pepples at me, called me a baby killer and said I should go back to the Marines and not show my faceamong the public. I literally had to run like hell for my engine because she chased me screaming obsenities. Thing is though, I was in a blue station shirt with the SOL and the maltese cross everywhere and black EMS pants. I was also wearing a black ball cap with EMT on it. I live in IL and the closest Marine Barracks is probably in Chicago at NS Great Lakes. Three hours north of me.     

You weren't even wearing your CAP or RM uniform? She must have recognized you from somewhere... Indeed once she started throwing something at you, it is now a crime.

[mynetdude]

Oh yeah I recall, going to the bank just before my CAP meeting some elderly guy came out of the bank and I would have presumed he served WWII (he was old enough to be my grandpa) as he saluted me on my way in and at the time I was still fairly new to the USAF uniform and didn't know whether to salute civilians or not so I don't know if he noticed my Grey eppies or not I think he noticed my nice cover (flight cap?) I like to wear instead of the service cap, I think he just noticed I was wearing USAF uniform and saluted without really noticing much details.

It wasn't until a few weeks later someone came to visit our squadron who has been in CAP for a long time and has past military experience and said that saluting a civilian is not a problem if you already know their grade/rank or if they salute you then you are more than welcome to and should salute back.

Now I salute my superiors regardless of whether they are in uniform or whether I am in uniform because I know they hold a higher grade than I do.

[mikeylikey]

Now I salute my superiors regardless of whether they are in uniform or whether I am in uniform because I know they hold a higher grade than I do.

That is something many CAP Officers fail to do, along with many other things.  Customs and courtesies seem to be disappearing everyday from CAP, and that is a shame. 

I hate teaching C&C to Cadets and then a have a Senior Member fail to follow the same standards in front of said Cadets 5 minutes later.  I have given the same C&C class for 10 years, both to Cadets and Senior Members and the only group that fails to do what they are taught are the Senior Members.  Guess they feel they have no obligation, which sadly is their right.

[davidsinn]

Our cadet commander (a C/Maj) Seems to think that if a cadet is in uniform and the SM is not than the cadet does not need to salute. Which if you read the current 151; you salute.

[MIKE]

(1) You salute when in military-style uniform.

Implies that you do not salute when not "in military-style uniform."

[mynetdude]

Now I salute my superiors regardless of whether they are in uniform or whether I am in uniform because I know they hold a higher grade than I do.

That is something many CAP Officers fail to do, along with many other things.  Customs and courtesies seem to be disappearing everyday from CAP, and that is a shame. 

I hate teaching C&C to Cadets and then a have a Senior Member fail to follow the same standards in front of said Cadets 5 minutes later.  I have given the same C&C class for 10 years, both to Cadets and Senior Members and the only group that fails to do what they are taught are the Senior Members.  Guess they feel they have no obligation, which sadly is their right.

I'll bet if it comes down to core values it would be considered disrespect of the USAF uniform if you do not salute and I know that according to C&C it says that saluting is for the "sense of belonging" and respect.  I'd have to read it again, but it doesn't seem that the regulation implies saluting is "required" it seems to imply that you SHOULD salute?? I have read various parts of it indicating that anyway.

[mynetdude]

(1) You salute when in military-style uniform.

Implies that you do not salute when not "in military-style uniform."

It is OPTIONAL if you even salute if you are not in uniform, there was another thread about this very same topic.

[mikeylikey]

(1) You salute when in military-style uniform.

Implies that you do not salute when not "in military-style uniform."

Thats a real shame.  You should salute in or out of uniform when you recognize the person as being "salutable".  I think that should be re-written!

[adamblank]

Do you think that is an Army vs. Air Force difference?  I have no problem saluting my AD superiors if one of us isn't in uniform.  I have just not seen it done or even as an unwritten rule.  But you are certainly right that salutes are free and there is no harm in showing C+Cs.

[MIKE]

IMO, military salutes in civvies/non-military uniforms looks goofy.  Appropriate verbal greeting should be good enough for CAPs purposes when one or both parties is not in uniform, or when a salute would otherwise be inappropriate.

[mikeylikey]

Do you think that is an Army vs. Air Force difference?  I have no problem saluting my AD superiors if one of us isn't in uniform.  I have just not seen it done or even as an unwritten rule.  But you are certainly right that salutes are free and there is no harm in showing C+Cs.

I do think it is a cultural difference between AF and Army.  Even Marines salute Officers that are not in uniform.  However, When I go to gym, the Airman at the gate salutes me after seeing the DOD sticker on the car and my ID card.  So, there I am not too sure.

I don't know why it would be goofy to salute an Officer if you recognize him or her and they or you are not in uniform, it is all in the end about respect.

[lordmonar]

IMO, military salutes in civvies/non-military uniforms looks goofy.  Appropriate verbal greeting should be good enough for CAPs purposes when one or both parties is not in uniform, or when a salute would otherwise be inappropriate.

Just like on active duty....If I'm not in uniform I don't salute.

For the record....CAP considers the USAF style, the Gray and Whites and the Blue and White, a three versions of the flight suit and the BDU and BBDU uniforms to be "military style"....so polos and corporates you don't salute in....everthing else you do.

[DC]

IMO, military salutes in civvies/non-military uniforms looks goofy.  Appropriate verbal greeting should be good enough for CAPs purposes when one or both parties is not in uniform, or when a salute would otherwise be inappropriate.

Just like on active duty....If I'm not in uniform I don't salute.

For the record....CAP considers the USAF style, the Gray and Whites and the Blue and White, a three versions of the flight suit and the BDU and BBDU uniforms to be "military style"....so polos and corporates you don't salute in....everthing else you do.

Aren't the Grey and Whites, TPU and BBDUs all considered corporate? My general rule is to salute if rank and a regulation cover are worn. So Grey and Whites I don't salute, but the TPU and BBDUs (if worn with a cover) I do.

[mikeylikey]

Just like on active duty....If I'm not in uniform I don't salute.

Are you AF? 

If you walked past an Officer coming out of the PX in your CoC, whom you recognize, you wouldn't throw a salute, because you are not in uniform?  Military courtesy and customs don't end at the end of the duty day, surely don't end because it is the weekend, and most assuredly don't end because one person is not in uniform.  Going on this line of reasoning, you must also believe you wouldn't be held accountable under UCMJ for actions you took part in out of uniform too right?

It must just be an Army thing, but everywhere I have been the saying goes "you are never off duty".  Perhaps it is just an Officer thing then.  I remember getting the speech that I had to be clean shaven if just going to the PX on a Sunday, and my Commander would "be jacked" if he caught any of the Officers unshaven and looking sloppy.

So my question lordmonar......if you are not in uniform and you receive an order from an officer, do you obey?  OR if you are in uniform and you receive an order from an Officer not in uniform, do you obey?  The uniform does not make the Officer, the rank does.  IF you know an Officers rank, you are just being petty by not adhering to centuries of custom.

[RiverAux]

As far as CAP goes, it seems to me that initating a salute while you are not in uniform just looks stupid.  You should still address them correctly, of course.  Now, if I receive a salute from someone who is out of uniform and I am in uniform, I would return it.  I'll think they look silly starting it, but I will return the respect they've given me. 

Frankly, its hard enough getting seniors to salute when they are in uniform, that I don't think having them salute while out of it is an issue.  Maybe for the cadets though. 

[adamblank]

Just like on active duty....If I'm not in uniform I don't salute.

Are you AF? 

If you walked past an Officer coming out of the PX in your CoC, whom you recognize, you wouldn't throw a salute, because you are not in uniform?  Military courtesy and customs don't end at the end of the duty day, surely don't end because it is the weekend, and most assuredly don't end because one person is not in uniform.  Going on this line of reasoning, you must also believe you wouldn't be held accountable under UCMJ for actions you took part in out of uniform too right?

It must just be an Army thing, but everywhere I have been the saying goes "you are never off duty".  Perhaps it is just an Officer thing then.  I remember getting the speech that I had to be clean shaven if just going to the PX on a Sunday, and my Commander would "be jacked" if he caught any of the Officers unshaven and looking sloppy.

So my question lordmonar......if you are not in uniform and you receive an order from an officer, do you obey?  OR if you are in uniform and you receive an order from an Officer not in uniform, do you obey?  The uniform does not make the Officer, the rank does.  IF you know an Officers rank, you are just being petty by not adhering to centuries of custom.

I know this question wasn't addressed to me but I feel like maybe something is being left out in the translation.  If my SQ/CC or any other superior officer went by me in either civilian clothes I think I would actually get spoken to if I saluted them when we weren't both in uniform.  Its not a judgement on if I thought it was appropriate, but what would happen if it was done in the AF culture.  I think the best answer is to chat with an O-5 type and see what they say on it.

[mikeylikey]

^ Guess it is an Air Force thing then. 

[JoeTomasone]

Some time ago I read (and it might have been in CAPP 151 or its predecessor, or my Cadet Leadership book from a zillion years ago, not sure anymore) that a salute is the military form of greeting (extending to the days when knights raised their faceshields in greeting) and that it is NEVER inappropriate to salute. 

That being said, I think that when the initiator is OUT of uniform that a greeting is sufficient ("Good morning, sir").   However, when the initiator is in uniform, I don't think it matters whether the recipient is in or out of uniform - if you recognize them as someone you would salute in uniform, then I think it should be done.

If someone salutes you, return the salute - no matter the circumstances.  To not return it is to effectively ignore the greeting - a snub, if you will.

[SJFedor]

Ive never been confused for RM and thanked or saluted by anyone or anything good... however...


one day while i was at my job a lady threw a handfull of pepples at me, called me a baby killer and said I should go back to the Marines and not show my faceamong the public. I literally had to run like hell for my engine because she chased me screaming obsenities. Thing is though, I was in a blue station shirt with the SOL and the maltese cross everywhere and black EMS pants. I was also wearing a black ball cap with EMT on it. I live in IL and the closest Marine Barracks is probably in Chicago at NS Great Lakes. Three hours north of me.     

Does IL have state laws that make it a felony to assault a healthcare worker?

[nesagsar]

Not that I know of. For sure you wont get any sympathy from the cops though.

[Ozzy]

Well I had quite a few times where people thought I was in the military. Every once in a while I get someone that comes up to me that says "Bless you for you're service" or "Thank you for all that you've done for us". The first few times that happened to me I thanked them but told them that I was in CAP and what it was about but that just seemed to confuse them, so I've started just to say "Thank you very much for supporting our armed forces". But probably the funniest was after a Color Guard I did in AFJROTC a few years ago, a little kid came up to me and asked if I was the owner of the Navy. I told him since he was just a lil kid, that I was part of an Air Force program.

[Pylon]

But probably the funniest was after a Color Guard I did in AFJROTC a few years ago, a little kid came up to me and asked if I was the owner of the Navy.

Haha, hilarious!  That's a really unique and good one to remember.  So... you mean to tell us that you don't own the Navy?

[♠SARKID♠]

But probably the funniest was after a Color Guard I did in AFJROTC a few years ago, a little kid came up to me and asked if I was the owner of the Navy.

Ow man, I choked on a wheat thin when I read that!  Hillarious!   

[JayT]

Well I had quite a few times where people thought I was in the military. Every once in a while I get someone that comes up to me that says "Bless you for you're service" or "Thank you for all that you've done for us". The first few times that happened to me I thanked them but told them that I was in CAP and what it was about but that just seemed to confuse them, so I've started just to say "Thank you very much for supporting our armed forces". But probably the funniest was after a Color Guard I did in AFJROTC a few years ago, a little kid came up to me and asked if I was the owner of the Navy. I told him since he was just a lil kid, that I was part of an Air Force program.

Sure you did Ozzy!

[nesagsar]

You should have said this:

"No I dont own the navy but if you can keep a secret....*I'm Batman*"

[lordmonar]

Just like on active duty....If I'm not in uniform I don't salute.

Are you AF? 

If you walked past an Officer coming out of the PX in your CoC, whom you recognize, you wouldn't throw a salute, because you are not in uniform?  Military courtesy and customs don't end at the end of the duty day, surely don't end because it is the weekend, and most assuredly don't end because one person is not in uniform.  Going on this line of reasoning, you must also believe you wouldn't be held accountable under UCMJ for actions you took part in out of uniform too right?

Yes I am AF...and if you look at military courtisies you don't HAVE to salute when not in uniform....ever....If I saw one of my officers at the BX I would say.."Good Day Sir".

I never said just because I'm not in uniform I'm not under the UCMJ...but military curitysies say...in civilain cloths you don't have to salute.

So my question lordmonar......if you are not in uniform and you receive an order from an officer, do you obey?  OR if you are in uniform and you receive an order from an Officer not in uniform, do you obey?  The uniform does not make the Officer, the rank does.  IF you know an Officers rank, you are just being petty by not adhering to centuries of custom.

Yes to both questions....but I don't salute him.  I don't know aobut centuries of custome sir...but in my 22 years of service...I have never been told that I have to render a salute while I was wearing civilian cloths.

[lordmonar]

^ Guess it is an Air Force thing then. 

It's not even an army thing..

4-14.     Salutes are not required when:

- Indoors, unless reporting to an officer or when on duty as a guard.
- A prisoner.
- Saluting is obviously inappropriate. In any case not covered by specific instructions, render the salute.
- Either the senior or the subordinate is wearing civilian clothes.

So maybe it is just a mikeylikey thing.

[mikeylikey]

^ Must just be my thing I guess then.  Terrible of me to show respect to those deserving it.  Shame on me.   

[nesagsar]

Bad Mikey, no beef stew in your MRE.

[mikeylikey]

^ haha......  I loved the beef stew too........

[nesagsar]

I will take a beef stew MRE over GLNTC food any day.

[AlphaSigOU]

I will take a beef stew MRE over GLNTC food any day.

Hmmm... and I thought squiddie food was better in quality than their sister services? 

<-- ex-Air Farce cook... DEATH FROM WITHIN!

[nesagsar]

It was great back in 2002 when I first went there but some time around 2004 they mostly changed over to civilian services for the mess facility. In 02 I loved going up there, everything was good. In 05 there were some things I wouldent go near without orders from the encampment commander, they even changed the milk.

Now as far as Army food is concerned I never want to see those eggs again. Ewww. Air Force potatoes are great, so is the bread. I never got to do anything at Marine facilites but my friend says the food was great in California when he did boot.

[AlphaSigOU]

Figgers... leave it to silly-vilian contractors to do stuff at the lowest contract price possible and watch the chow quality go straight to hell.

In days of old Navy cooks had an ominous incentive to cook good chow: the crew reserved the right to throw the cook overboard for shark bait if the food sucked. (Or being converted to a practice torpedo on a sub!) Well, it wouldn't really happen that way, but then they wonder why the troops are lining up at the base Booger King instead of the chow hall.

[nesagsar]

First time I went to great lakes I was confused as hell when I saw the burger king and taco bell on base.

[MIKE]

Topic.

[addo1]

  People get me confused no matter where I go.  At Applebees the lady would actually "snap" to attention to take our orders  and at McDonalds the checkout lady was sirrrrring me annoyingly... If people ask, if I am in the AF I say that I am a proud volunteer of the CAP AF Aux.

[nesagsar]

If people ask, if I am in the AF I say that I am a proud volunteer of the CAP AF Aux.

The US CAP AF aux?

[SarDragon]

  People get me confused no matter where I go.  At Applebees the lady would actually "snap" to attention to take our orders  and at McDonalds the checkout lady was sirrrrring me annoyingly... If people ask, if I am in the AF I say that I am a proud volunteer of the CAP AF Aux.

I get sirrrrred annoyingly in McD's no matter what I'm wearing.

[SAR-EMT1]

Ive never been confused for RM and thanked or saluted by anyone or anything good... however...


one day while i was at my job a lady threw a handfull of pepples at me, called me a baby killer and said I should go back to the Marines and not show my faceamong the public. I literally had to run like hell for my engine because she chased me screaming obsenities. Thing is though, I was in a blue station shirt with the SOL and the maltese cross everywhere and black EMS pants. I was also wearing a black ball cap with EMT on it. I live in IL and the closest Marine Barracks is probably in Chicago at NS Great Lakes. Three hours north of me.     

Does IL have state laws that make it a felony to assault a healthcare worker?

IL has a law that makes a felony of assaulting any "public safety official" : Police/Fire/EMS
one of the following two criteria must be met at the time:
1) the person is in uniform and "on the clock" (I was)
2) the person is in the process of discharging their duties (especially applies to vollunteer depts where they might not have a 'uniform' but screwing with them while on a call is still a no-no)

Thing is, IL also doesnt specify that a person be given leave from work to go to court after being assaulted. (though all LE depts will, many fireamd EMS agencies are left sucking hind tit. I used to work with a guy who had a finger that was bit off by a deranged patient. The EMS agency he worked for not only didnt cover 100% of the hospital bill, but also threatened to fire him if he skipped work to attend the trial. As a result the judge let the pt. off scot free.

Proof yet again that EMS truely is the bastard stepchild of public safety. 

[SSgt Rudin]

Figgers... leave it to silly-vilian contractors to do stuff at the lowest contract price possible and watch the chow quality go straight to hell.

In days of old Navy cooks had an ominous incentive to cook good chow: the crew reserved the right to throw the cook overboard for shark bait if the food sucked. (Or being converted to a practice torpedo on a sub!) Well, it wouldn't really happen that way, but then they wonder why the troops are lining up at the base Booger King instead of the chow hall.

The cooks on my ship had a really good reason to cook good food, there was a standing order from the Skipper that if the food was sub par you were to come up to the wardroom and let him know, after 3 people came and told him the food was horrible he would send a FSA (someone who is sent from their division to work in the galley for 3 to 4 months) to get an E-3 or below. The skipper would then have the E-3 or below bring him a tray of food from the mess decks. If in his opinion it was sub par the crew got to vote on what was served for the next meal.

[nesagsar]

The problem at great lakes is that they put civies on the mess detail, real sailors would never cook the crap they gave us.

[MIKE]

Lock.