CAP is always the AF Auxiliary

[DNall]

All this has to do with is lawsuits. And within that, the AF isn't liable when they don't have the authority to tell us what to do, and are liable when they do. That's it. All this law did was formalize that line so they could dodge more suits when it's CAP's fault.

As far as the name, I'd just assume drop CAP & adopt AFAux as the name, and for that matter drop the independent corporation & form up under AF, both like CGAux does it.

DNall, be glad Congress created CAP, and the Air Force cannot dissolve what Congress created by Law, thank God!

It would have happened a long time ago, if  certain Air Force Generals and IG Inspectors had their way.

It could be AFJROTC with additional and exciting Missions on Patrol!

If it's truly best for the country to dissolve our cadet program & roll it in with AFJROTC, or to add a middle school & community based aspect to AFJROTC, and if there's a better more efficient more effective way to do ES thru the states than thru CAP, then I would demand CAP be dissolved and those things happen. I'm not here for the glory of CAP. I'm here to serve the good of my country, and if that means no CAP, then that's what should happen.

I don't believe that's the case. It's close, but I think CAP has enormous unrealized potential. I think that's unrealized because it's horridly mismanaged across the board in deference to volunteers that aren't trusted at any level to have any fortitude. I think that's unfortunate. I think instilling some quality training, discipline, reorganization, effective governance structure, and real leadership would create revolutionary change of dramatic positive impact for the country. If I didn't believe that, and didn't believe it is possible to achieve, I'd be in Washington ensuring CAP went away.

[jimmydeanno]

However if Im in uniform and someone asks what it is, I say simply "Air Force"

You tell people you're in the Air Force?

[O-Rex]

I always state that I am a Lt in the CAP and that CAP is the Air Force Auxiliary

However if I'm in uniform and someone asks what it is, I say simply "Air Force"
however, I am not a fat bearded donut eater.

Don't start that crap again! 

sorry, my rely "timed out"

Careful, guys, I hear the jingle of the moderator's keys...

I am hopeful that all the controversy of the last couple of years, and the little spat our leadership had with USAF will smooth out.

CAP/USAF Aux is more a state of mind than what appears above your name on your uniform nametag, or below it on your signature block.

Just keep plugging away, and put your best foot forward.  What's that phrase? " A rose by any other name.."

[lordmonar]

I'm not here for the glory of CAP. I'm here to serve the good of my country..

Hear! Hear! :clap:

[Earhart1971]

All this has to do with is lawsuits. And within that, the AF isn't liable when they don't have the authority to tell us what to do, and are liable when they do. That's it. All this law did was formalize that line so they could dodge more suits when it's CAP's fault.

As far as the name, I'd just assume drop CAP & adopt AFAux as the name, and for that matter drop the independent corporation & form up under AF, both like CGAux does it.

DNall, be glad Congress created CAP, and the Air Force cannot dissolve what Congress created by Law, thank God!

It would have happened a long time ago, if  certain Air Force Generals and IG Inspectors had their way.

It could be AFJROTC with additional and exciting Missions on Patrol!

If it's truly best for the country to dissolve our cadet program & roll it in with AFJROTC, or to add a middle school & community based aspect to AFJROTC, and if there's a better more efficient more effective way to do ES thru the states than thru CAP, then I would demand CAP be dissolved and those things happen. I'm not here for the glory of CAP. I'm here to serve the good of my country, and if that means no CAP, then that's what should happen.

I don't believe that's the case. It's close, but I think CAP has enormous unrealized potential. I think that's unrealized because it's horridly mismanaged across the board in deference to volunteers that aren't trusted at any level to have any fortitude. I think that's unfortunate. I think instilling some quality training, discipline, reorganization, effective governance structure, and real leadership would create revolutionary change of dramatic positive impact for the country. If I didn't believe that, and didn't believe it is possible to achieve, I'd be in Washington ensuring CAP went away.

DNall I think we agree.

Simply my position: The CAP Cadet Program, is SAFE, and it will Grow.

Middle School Program: CAP OWNS that, and AFROTC can benefit from our efforts in the Middle Schools, that is an area where there is real HOPE!

CAP is not going away, but can we get out of Beg and Survival Mode?

I want to raise CAP higher on all fronts.

HLS and Border stuff, yes, by all means, but closer to National Guard benefits for the Ground Troops and Pilots.

ES yes in the Desert states, Alaska, but in SER it's DEAD, Sheriff with Helicopters and IR can handle most of it. Have not heard of a operational Ground Team in USE in a while in Florida Wing.  Training yes, actual use no.

[jpnelson82]

"Civil Air Patrol" was our original name, and tradition demands we keep it.  Plus, we cannot abbreviate "US Air Force Auxiliary" without being confused with the US Air Force Academy or the US Air Force Association.

I thought when we abbreviated USAF Auxiliary we used USAFx, not USAFA I remember seeing that on some wing form ages ago (with a small "x".) What is the problem with that?

[RiverAux]

Other than the "USAF Aux" on our planes (now being replaced), I've never seen any sort of official abbreviation since it isn't actually our name, but a description. 

[fireplug]

Well, USAF Auxiliary is part of our name, I think. See CAPR 10-1, par 5a

5. Style of Letterhead:
a. A letterhead must include these elements: unit designation; the words "Civil Air Patrol"; "United States Air Force Auxiliary"; and the geographic location of the unit. Example is shown below:
HEADQUARTERS
CIVIL AIR PATROL MISSOURI WING
UNITED STATES AIR FORCE AUXILIARY
PO Box 15604
Kansas City MO 64108-5000

[Al Sayre]

... ES yes in the Desert states, Alaska, but in SER it's DEAD, Sheriff with Helicopters and IR can handle most of it. Have not heard of a operational Ground Team in USE in a while in Florida Wing.  Training yes, actual use no.

Somehow, I think Mr. Steinbock might disagree with you on this...

[Mustang]

CAP is always a part of the Air Force.

Just like the Air National Guard is always a part of the Air Force, even though they work for the state unless called into federal service.

John, you're mistaken.  CAP is NOT part of the Air Force, nor does the Air Force have direct operational control over CAP.  This was the entire point of the legislation that brought us the Board of Governors; prior to its existence, the AF had no binding say in CAP affairs whatsoever, outside of existing memoranda of understanding.

CAP exists as a congressionally-sponsored organization, like the American Red Cross or the Boy Scouts. It is not a private organization, nor is it "public" in the sense of having public shareholders. CAP exists solely at the pleasure of Congress, who are its sole "owners". 

Because of CAP's status as the offician civilian auxiliary of the USAF, and because CAP's federal appropriations are channeled through USAF, it's easy to draw a false conclusion that CAP is part and parcel of the USAF like the Air National Guard, as you said--but it's simply not the case.  CAP's federal appropriations are now administered as grants or contracts through statements of work, and in that sense, CAP is more akin to a government contractor, only with additional protections when performing services on behalf of the federal government.

[lordmonar]

CAP exists solely at the pleasure of Congress, who are its sole "owners". 

Got to disagree on this one.....yes congress created us by public law...but if that law was overturned....CAP would still exists.  Our charter does not affect our status as a corporation.

The Boy Scouts and Red Cross are also chartered by congress but they don't exist solely at the pleasure of congress.  Otherwise the BSA would not get away with its religious and sexual orientation discrimination.

[SAR-EMT1]

CAP is always a part of the Air Force.

Just like the Air National Guard is always a part of the Air Force, even though they work for the state unless called into federal service.

John, you're mistaken.  CAP is NOT part of the Air Force, nor does the Air Force have direct operational control over CAP.  This was the entire point of the legislation that brought us the Board of Governors; prior to its existence, the AF had no binding say in CAP affairs whatsoever, outside of existing memoranda of understanding.

Got to disagree with you there, per the wording of the USC (and my AFROTC texts) "CAP is a member of the  USAF "total force" AD, RES, ANG, AUX, and Civie. CAP is a highly valued tool for public education, community service, and recruitment. " <-- AFOATS