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Cecil DP
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« on: January 24, 2008, 09:34:40 AM »

About 10 years ago, I was assisting at the MAWG Encampment and of course on the first day you had to pull  a fast one on the cadets. We had a young 1Lt who could pass as a cadet. We took two sets of C/LTC pips and created a Cadet National Commander in the grade of C/Brigadier General. I have never seen such awe struck cadets. Unfortuneately, we could only do it for an hour before it went too far.
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BillB
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« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2008, 11:52:08 AM »

Sometime around 1949, "someone" at National OK'd the rank of C/BGen. Now CAP has no record of it. But there were seven cadets nation wide that got the promotion. This lasted about one week until AFROTC complained that since they didn't have cadet general grade, CAP shouldn't. And those seven were returned to their original cadet grade.
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Gil Robb Wilson # 19
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« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2008, 01:50:27 PM »

1987 Tyndall AFB Summer Encampment during the dining-in, we did several skits, one of which included a C/BG with 4 diamonds...wore a MacArthur type hat, dark glasses and a pipe...fun stuff.
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Cecil DP
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« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2008, 02:12:33 PM »

Sometime around 1949, "someone" at National OK'd the rank of C/BGen. Now CAP has no record of it. But there were seven cadets nation wide that got the promotion. This lasted about one week until AFROTC complained that since they didn't have cadet general grade, CAP shouldn't. And those seven were returned to their original cadet grade.
I thought that until 1964 the highest grade for cadets was C/Maj with discretionary promotions
available for encampments and National Special Activities
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Michael P. McEleney
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BillB
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« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2008, 02:42:51 PM »

Cecil DP.  You are correct on the hiest cadet grade of being C/Major. The C/BG was an idea from National that's cadets with the third clasp on the Cadet COP could be appointed C/BG by the Wing Commander. But it was so short lived due to AFROTC complaint, that it never made it into the regs. And it reverted to C/Major being the highest grade.
The concept was after earning 1st clasp the cadet could promote to C/LTC,, 2nd Clasp to C/Col and third clasp to C/BG. There was never any information on what a C/BG could do as duty.
In 1964 Jack Sorensen came up with the current cadet grade stystem up to C/Col for the Spaatz. He told me one time that he considered adding C/BG grade to a Spaatz Cadet to serve as Regional cadet advisor. One C/BG per region. But he found there was no need for the idea and it was dropped.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2008, 02:49:22 PM by BillB » Report to moderator   Logged
Gil Robb Wilson # 19
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mikeylikey
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« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2008, 05:35:19 PM »

I am gald AFJROTC dictates policy for CAP.  I wonder, after they stole our cadet program, how could they even consider advising CAP on anything. 
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What's up monkeys?
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« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2008, 06:06:44 PM »

The Chicago JROTC program has had the C/BG rank for 10 years that I know of.

Linky: http://www.chicagojrotc.com/city_corps_staff.jsp?rn=545875
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AL PABON, Major, CAP
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« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2008, 07:16:18 PM »

Centuries ago, when cadets wore tricorns..... >:D

Michigan Wing was one of the wings that used to hand out "discretionary" rank for encampment.  You might be a c/Lt Col, but you were selected as the C/CC for encampment, so for the duration of that week, you were a C/Col.  Or you were a flight commander, and normally a C/MSgt, but this week you're a C/1Lt.

Well, apparently NHQ was not happy about a wing letting a cadet wear 3 diamonds unless they'd earned it with the Spaatz.  (IMHO, not an incorrect position, BTW)  When told "Your cadet commander cannot wear 3 diamonds unless he/she has earned the Spaatz," the folks running encampment saluted, said "Yes, sir!" and created a 4-diamond insignia for the cadet commander.

I've seen it.  Cloth. Full-size. Mini. On shoulder boards.  It was COOL.

By 1981, the whole "three diamond" thing was back, since every encampment cadet commander  from the time I started going to encampment until NHQ finally published guidance disallowing ALL discretionary rank was wearing three diamonds.

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SJFedor
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« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2008, 08:35:04 PM »

The Chicago JROTC program has had the C/BG rank for 10 years that I know of.

Linky: http://www.chicagojrotc.com/city_corps_staff.jsp?rn=545875

Is it just me, or do all the JROTC kid's uniforms make them look like some foreign dictator?
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Steven Fedor, NREMT-P
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« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2008, 08:37:54 PM »

The Chicago JROTC program has had the C/BG rank for 10 years that I know of.

Linky: http://www.chicagojrotc.com/city_corps_staff.jsp?rn=545875

Wow......it's like the BLING MONSTER attacked them in Chicago.  What the crap.  I do believe they are not following any of the JROTC uniform manuals there.  WOW
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SJFedor
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« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2008, 08:46:13 PM »

The Chicago JROTC program has had the C/BG rank for 10 years that I know of.

Linky: http://www.chicagojrotc.com/city_corps_staff.jsp?rn=545875

Wow......it's like the BLING MONSTER attacked them in Chicago.  What the crap.  I do believe they are not following any of the JROTC uniform manuals there.  WOW

Including the JROTC regulation that outlines authorized cadet grades?
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« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2008, 08:52:55 PM »

^ You Sir are correct!
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jimmydeanno
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« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2008, 09:04:56 PM »

Just in case anyone was wondering, the flag on our right is the Municipal Flag of Chicago.

http://www.chipublib.org/004chicago/chiflag.html
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« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2008, 09:22:27 PM »

The Chicago JROTC program has had the C/BG rank for 10 years that I know of.

Linky: http://www.chicagojrotc.com/city_corps_staff.jsp?rn=545875

Is it just me, or do all the JROTC kid's uniforms make them look like some foreign dictator?

I've seen Mexican generals with far less bling!  Good grief!  Isn't this supposed to be a learning experience?  What lesson are they teaching these young minds?  Not good ones, methinks.  :P
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SJFedor
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« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2008, 09:26:45 PM »

I pity the cadet who enlists and says at basic training "I was a C/BG back in Chicago!"

It'd be on like donkey kong.
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Steven Fedor, NREMT-P
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Gunner C
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« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2008, 09:29:02 PM »

I pity the cadet who enlists and says at basic training "I was a C/BG back in Chicago!"

It'd be on like donkey kong.

I can see it now:  Well, Buzz, you might have been someone back on the block, but you're a knucklehead here!  Do push ups until I get tired, Beanhead!
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JayT
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« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2008, 07:10:28 PM »

It seems gentlemen, that people who live in a glass house of cadet programs shouldn't throw rocks.

First, I don't believe it was JROTC who complained about the lack of C/BG rank, it was college ROTC. So, it wasn't a case of JROTC 'dictating our policy.' It was a legit complaint that lead to a change in policy.

Second, I learned more CP/military related stuff and much much much more AE related stuff in JROTC then is taught in CAP. To say 'Well, we occasionally let cadets go on missions' doesn't make/break the CP of CAP.
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mikeylikey
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« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2008, 07:35:54 PM »

^ Why did you stick around in CAP then?  YOu should have done JROTC and left CAP right??   :o
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JayT
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« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2008, 07:44:21 PM »

^ Why did you stick around in CAP then?  YOu should have done JROTC and left CAP right??   :o

I was in CAP before JROTC. My JROTC unit did also have major problems.

But, so does CAP. In my JROTC unit, no cadet ever had more then about a dozen or so ribbons. No cadet worried about lanyards, or service caps, or badges. No cadet every wore a civilian jacket over his/her blues. No cadet ever showed up in blues with a flip knife clipped to his/her belt.  Etc etc etc.

What I'm trying to say is, don't bash JROTC. Look at both programs from an ojective point of view.
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« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2008, 07:51:34 PM »

I was in CAP before JROTC. My JROTC unit did also have major problems.

But, so does CAP. In my JROTC unit, no cadet ever had more then about a dozen or so ribbons. No cadet worried about lanyards, or service caps, or badges. No cadet every wore a civilian jacket over his/her blues. No cadet ever showed up in blues with a flip knife clipped to his/her belt.  Etc etc etc.

What I'm trying to say is, don't bash JROTC. Look at both programs from an ojective point of view.

As both programs are subject to their local leadership, the effectiveness of the respective program depends upon the administrators; thus, units vary.

Those aren't problems with "CAP" or "JROTC", those are problems with a "CAP unit" or "JROTOC unit." So, no one really should bash either program as a whole as both programs are pretty solid and similar in their nature and mission... Some units are just better or worse than others.
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mikeylikey
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« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2008, 07:52:57 PM »

^ Well said!
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Flying Pig
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« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2008, 06:29:21 PM »

Bling Monster!  ;D   Thats a good one.  Yeah, some of those were a little out of control.  However, with that being said, you have to admire them for their dedication.  I would rather see a cadet toting a cart full of ribbons than sporting a chest full of gang tats.  In the end, they will move on and the medals will take their respective place in a shoe box or a shadow box on a wall.   I have seen High School student with Letterman's jackets that look very similar.  What I find interesting also, is that the JROTC branches fall in line with their respective service.  You have to admit, Army uniforms have always been notorious for pins, patches, ribbons cords.  Before anyone explodes over my comparisons, I was also in the Army.

But being a former Marine, you have to love these guys.  Simple, sharp, and to the point.  "Bling?  We don't need no stinking Bling.  Im in a set of dress blues" he says......"Hurry up and take my picture, the ladies are waiting."



* XUE_small.jpg (19.38 kB, 140x210 - viewed 253 times.)

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« Last Edit: February 03, 2008, 06:39:05 PM by Flying Pig » Report to moderator   Logged
flyguy06
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« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2008, 10:42:11 PM »

The Chicago JROTC program has had the C/BG rank for 10 years that I know of.

Linky: http://www.chicagojrotc.com/city_corps_staff.jsp?rn=545875

Thats a corps staff. It encompasses all the JROTC units inthe school system. Its more ceremonial than anything else. Good idea though. they have ajoint staff too. I have never seen that before.
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flyguy06
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« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2008, 10:43:55 PM »

The only place I know that is authorized the rank of cadet General is Texas A&M ROTC program. They have a joint Corps of Cadets. That Chicago unit is the firat joint JROTC Corps I have ever seen. Good idea though.
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JayT
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« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2008, 03:14:53 PM »

The only place I know that is authorized the rank of cadet General is Texas A&M ROTC program. They have a joint Corps of Cadets. That Chicago unit is the firat joint JROTC Corps I have ever seen. Good idea though.

They do have a four diamond cadet, but I believe it's title is 'Cadet Colonel of the Corps," Not Brig. General.
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JROB
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« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2008, 05:31:17 AM »

Yeah they Call them C/BG and Unlike in CAP we dont get a ribbon every time we get promoted an they are the Only JROTC program in the country with that grade in Memphis we just have Colonels
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jb512
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« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2008, 07:28:04 AM »

It seems gentlemen, that people who live in a glass house of cadet programs shouldn't throw rocks.

First, I don't believe it was JROTC who complained about the lack of C/BG rank, it was college ROTC. So, it wasn't a case of JROTC 'dictating our policy.' It was a legit complaint that lead to a change in policy.

Second, I learned more CP/military related stuff and much much much more AE related stuff in JROTC then is taught in CAP. To say 'Well, we occasionally let cadets go on missions' doesn't make/break the CP of CAP.

I would completely agree with that, but one thing in CAP's defense is that it's a little easier to teach your people when you have an hour a day, five days a week plus after school drill sessions.  Another plus is that you always have a constant rotation of seasoned 4th year cadets teaching 3rd year, 2nd year down to first and it kinda takes care of itself.  Every cadet staff position is usually filled from top to bottom every year.

I was also a dual CAP/AFJROTC cadet and found that the ROTC side appealed more to me.  I left CAP as a C/FO, but went to C/Lt Col in ROTC.

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« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2008, 08:49:21 AM »

Quote
I left CAP as a C/FO

A cadet flight officer?  Sounds like something from before my time.
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SarDragon
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« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2008, 10:04:14 AM »

Way before your time. Many moons ago.
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jimmydeanno
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« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2008, 12:10:40 PM »

Quote
I left CAP as a C/FO

A cadet flight officer?  Sounds like something from before my time.

I was a C/FO at one point - I earned my Mitchell in 1998, a few months later it was phased out.

In my cadet time after earning your Mitchell you were promoted to C/FO (Gold Pip).  C/2d Lt was another achievement away.  It was kind of aggravating when they phased them out because everyone who hadn't earned C/2d Lt was automatically promoted.  At the time we had 4 C/FOs and I was the only one who had completed the achievement for C/2d Lt, the rest got auto promoted...we were fiercely competitive... ;D
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« Reply #30 on: March 10, 2008, 12:44:00 PM »

When I had my gold pip, I was a Cadet Warrant Officer (C/WO) . This was just before the transition to the light blue shirt with epaulets. During this time, C/WO wore the grade insignia on the collar of the blue shirt, but C/2d Lt and above wore shoulder boards on the blue shirt.
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jb512
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« Reply #31 on: March 11, 2008, 03:43:38 AM »

Quote
I left CAP as a C/FO

A cadet flight officer?  Sounds like something from before my time.

I think you're trying to make me feel old.....

 ;)
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Al Sayre
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« Reply #32 on: March 11, 2008, 11:45:04 AM »

When I left the Cadet Program, I was a C/WO and we wore our glod pips on shoulderboards.  This was just slightly before dinosaurs roamed the earth.
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mikeylikey
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« Reply #33 on: March 11, 2008, 12:19:23 PM »

Man, I was a C/FO.  I feel so old!  I still remember the Cadet Officers saying I wasn't a real Officer yet, and had to still drill with the flight.  I think we even wore them on the collars right?  It has been like 10 years.....
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JoeTomasone
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« Reply #34 on: March 11, 2008, 05:27:45 PM »

When I left the Cadet Program, I was a C/WO and we wore our glod pips on shoulderboards.  This was just slightly before dinosaurs roamed the earth.

That's what we had when I was a cadet.  I never did get the Mitchell (long story), so I topped out as a C/MSgt (which, for you current cadets, was the highest cadet NCO grade at the time). 

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ZigZag911
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« Reply #35 on: March 11, 2008, 07:43:09 PM »

I was also C/WO when I got my Mitchell (after Apollo XI, but before the last Moon landing!)...later got an Earhart, finished off as C/Capt.
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SarDragon
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« Reply #36 on: March 12, 2008, 01:14:37 AM »

I got an instant promotion from C/MSgt to C/WO in Dec '68 when it was first introduced.
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