Subdued Squadron Patches

PhoenixRisen · January 22, 2008, 04:32:34 AM

Ok, so some of you may have seen my post that I'm in he process of designing a new squadron patch. I noticed from the other patch design thread that someone mentioned "subdued" patches. Being that my unit has a "subdued" patch, this peaked my interest.

I didn't want to hijack the other two threads, so I figured I'd put up a new one.

What I'd like to know is, is it "kosher" within CAP (specifically CAWG) to have "subdued" unit patches for BDU's?

I would ask my unit commander, but in a previous question to him about the history of our patch, he informed me that was way, way before his time at our Sq, and he had no clue. This leads me to believe that he wouldn't know about the subdued ones we're authorized, too.

Any help on this one?

Eeyore · January 22, 2008, 04:42:59 AM

My old Sq in SoCal had a subdued patch. I thought it looked pretty sharp.

♠SARKID♠ · January 22, 2008, 05:10:29 AM

I'm lost, what do you mean by subdued?

RiverAux · January 22, 2008, 05:14:28 AM

I'm not sure that there is anything in CAP regulations that require squadron patches to be brightly colored even though all the other stuff on our uniform is.

FYI, "subdued" usually means that the patch is primarily green, brown, and black -- in other words colors that won't stand out and get you shot in the jungle.

PhoenixRisen · January 22, 2008, 05:15:31 AM

Quote from: ♠SARKID♠ on January 22, 2008, 05:10:29 AM
I'm lost, what do you mean by subdued?

vs.

Eeyore · January 22, 2008, 05:22:09 AM

The only image I can find of my old squadron's patch is on their homepage, http://sq47.cawg.cap.gov/ it's a jumbo sized patch...in space.

PhoenixRisen · January 22, 2008, 05:35:36 AM

Like I said, I realize that there are subdued patches (as my squadron has one), what I'd like to know is, is this legal? Or is there anything prohibiting it?

mikeylikey · January 22, 2008, 05:36:44 AM

I don't think anything prohibits it. I wish more patches were subdued!

lordmonar · January 22, 2008, 05:50:03 AM

Squadron patches must be authorised by the wing king....and there is no rule against it.

Having said that....why subue it when all the rest of your patchs are in color?

O-Rex · January 22, 2008, 06:03:02 AM

If the unit insignia is actually in subdued colors, then there's no reason that the patch shouldn't be.

But if the unit insignia is full color and the patch subdued, I'd have to ask 'why?'

alamrcn · January 22, 2008, 05:05:53 PM

Quote from: ♠SARKID♠ on January 22, 2008, 05:10:29 AM
I'm lost, what do you mean by subdued?

To further the explanation...

A subdued insignia has colors that have been "translated" - meaning the original colors have been changed to a deeper or darker pigmented set of colors. There is actually a conversion chart, check it out:
http://www.usafpatches.com/palette.shtml

So to actually subdue an emblem, you must first create a normal (referred to as "bright") version, kinda what O-rex referred to. If you make the emblem and patch from the ground up with colors like flag blue, garnet red, black, spruce green, etc... I guess that isn't really a subdued insignia.

Here's my squadron's patch, we used a mixture of subdued-ish colors and brights:
http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/mn/mn104c.jpg
You'll see two sets of colors, the four from the BDUs (which kinda makes that part blend in), and those from our previous patch (which really jump out).

The improtant thing is that your patch is professional (subjective) and represents those who wear it. As long as your squadron commander (1st) up to your wing commander (last) approve the design, you're golden - er, olive drab!

-Ace

Hawk200 · January 22, 2008, 06:51:07 PM

Quote from: alamrcn on January 22, 2008, 05:05:53 PM
A subdued insignia has colors that have been "translated" - meaning the original colors have been changed to a deeper or darker pigmented set of colors. There is actually a conversion chart, check it out: http://www.usafpatches.com/palette.shtml

That's an interesting page. I always kind wondered which colors translated to which as far as the subduing process went.

Another bit of info to throw in the mix: The brighter colors have been referred to as "vivid" colors. Doesn't seem to be a common term as "subdued", but it's pretty descriptive.

teesquared · January 22, 2008, 07:01:08 PM

Hmmm. I still don't understand the need to subdue. We're not trying to hide from anybody. It's kinda like wearing camos - we're not doing it to hide, we're doing it because they're widely available and cheap. IMHO, I say go with the bright. It's one more distinctive element from the AF uniforms.

Hawk200 · January 22, 2008, 07:05:55 PM

Quote from: teesquared on January 22, 2008, 07:01:08 PM
Hmmm. I still don't understand the need to subdue. We're not trying to hide from anybody. It's kinda like wearing camos - we're not doing it to hide, we're doing it because they're widely available and cheap. IMHO, I say go with the bright. It's one more distinctive element from the AF uniforms.

One patch subdued is not going to hide anyone (or anything). Some people like to do it so there is less color on our uniforms, kinda reducing the visual shock (at times it can be). In other cases, it's for the novelty. Some just like to do it because the Air Force does.

Even if you subdue the squadron patch, we still have plenty of other patches that are (very) bright. It's not going to make us invisible or anything.

ddelaney103 · January 23, 2008, 05:52:45 PM

Subdued patches is another case of "we want to look more 'military'" wannabe-ism.

It doesn't matter that none of our other patches are subdued, or that (except for AFSOC) you don't wear subdued patches on your flight gear or that subdued patches look stupid on the BBDU/blue jumpsuit, some gotta have them.

They're the Service Caps of field gear.

teesquared · January 23, 2008, 06:28:56 PM

So it would seem.

RogueLeader · January 23, 2008, 08:25:57 PM

Quote from: ddelaney103 on January 23, 2008, 05:52:45 PM
Subdued patches is another case of "we want to look more 'military'" wannabe-ism.

So there is no option for: I don't want to hurt my eyes with bright colors? Seriously, full color patches look good on Blues, but horrid on utilities. Just like ultramarine blue nametapes.

DNall · January 23, 2008, 08:33:29 PM

I wear the very minimum on my BDUs, not even wings & GBD badge as of right now, because I detest the color explosion. It looks like an outta control girl scout merit badge sash threw up on my uniform. I absolutely believe that's the most ridiculously unprofessional thing in the world. It's not about some wanna be need to feel like I'm in the military (which would be kind of pointless since I actually am), it's about an innate need not to look like a complete moron. YMMV

Because of this, I do highly favor a semi-subdued patch design. There's a couple older threads discussing that. You don't have to cammo out a patch. It looks better though if you tone the colors down - maroon for red, dark blue background versus royal blue, etc. It can be made to look very good with just a little thoughtful effort.

The point of a unit patch is to build cohesion & esprit de corps. You can do what you want, but I'm not wearing some bright crap, where I might consider something more conservative & understated.

PhoenixRisen · January 23, 2008, 09:08:16 PM

Quote from: ddelaney103 on January 23, 2008, 05:52:45 PM
Subdued patches is another case of "we want to look more 'military'" wannabe-ism.

[Consdering I started the thread...] No, it's not (but thanks for calling me a wannabe, anyways...). I would've figured wearing camo and combat boots would've covered the "wanting to look more military"... Or wanting to look military period. (Most "civilians" can't tell the difference between CAP and the military anyways.)

I'd like to be able to show squadron pride. I can't do this in Blues, as you can't wear patches on them. BDU's, you can. Does it hurt that I'd like to show squadron pride, while at the same time, try NOT to further the multi-colored, clown-suit look that we already have on our BDU's?

ddelaney103 · January 23, 2008, 10:31:30 PM

Unit patches should be simple, distinct and visible symbols of the unit. Subdued patches are a compromise between visibility and tactical needs - needs that CAP doesn't have. The patches on a flightsuit are bright because they're not operating under a tactical constraint, just like us.

Choosing a subdued patch is adopting a military choice when you aren't operating under their constraints: the mark of a wannabe.

further, putting a subdued patch on a uniform otherwise marked with full color insignia will make that patch disappear as the viewer looks for the high contrast everything else has.

A full color patch does not need to be garish, though it does need both contrasting colors and distinctive symbols in order to best distinguish the unit from other units. A simple patch (not trying to display the unit's entire history, location and missions helps) can be used to ID unit members, equipment and otherwise provide "branding" for the unit without being garish.