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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  The Lobby  |  Topic: Losing the term "Officer" as a generic term for Senior Members
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Author Topic: Losing the term "Officer" as a generic term for Senior Members  (Read 15833 times)
flyguy06
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« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2008, 01:36:24 PM »

I like the term Senior Member. Maybe because I am used to it. I never accepted the term Officer in CAP and I never use it.
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mikeylikey
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« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2008, 01:48:20 PM »

How about Cadets will be "CADET", and everyone not a Cadet, but a wearing Officer Rank will be "OFFICER".  Oh, and NCO's will be (get this) "NCO's".  Then we factor in patron members.....they will be "Patron Member-insert name here-.  Then we can call our FO's (hold on to your purses) "Officers" also. 

Senior Member, needs to go out the window now.  It is not 1973 anymore!  We are seeing our Organization slowly shift into something new here.  Lets keep up with the times and keep the momentum going.

I think we should also get rid of the title Flight Officer as well.  But that is my wish, and not shared by very many in CAP. 



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Walkman
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« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2008, 02:14:55 PM »

I think we should also get rid of the title Flight Officer as well. 

Not to drift, but why do we have FO's? If a FO turns into the equivalent grade when they're 21, why not just have al l18 year-olds start like the rest of us.
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mikeylikey
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« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2008, 02:19:23 PM »

^ Good question.  If an 18 year old comes in, he or she should start as a "nothing" and work his or her way toward being a 2nd Lt.  Instead of 6 months, perhaps make them be "nothing" for 1 year.  Get them the required PRO DEV during that time and make them a 19 year old Officer. 

Something similar to the program that was in place after 1945 and that died in 1956.  An "Officer Training Corps" of sorts. 

Sorry......this probably deserves it's own thread, so I stop now!
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arajca
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« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2008, 04:40:12 PM »

We have FO's because the AF doesn't want us to 18 year old Lt's or 19 year old Capt's.
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Capt Rivera
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Grand Forks Composite Squadron
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2008, 04:44:54 PM »

^ Good question.  If an 18 year old comes in, he or she should start as a "nothing" and work his or her way toward being a 2nd Lt.  Instead of 6 months, perhaps make them be "nothing" for 1 year.  Get them the required PRO DEV during that time and make them a 19 year old Officer. 

Something similar to the program that was in place after 1945 and that died in 1956.  An "Officer Training Corps" of sorts. 

Sorry......this probably deserves it's own thread, so I stop now!

I guess that since SMs/officers are the responsible adults present and their presence has much to do with insurance rates.... rates probably differ between 18 & 21 with CAP just like they do with medical/auto/renters/home owners etc....

FO gives a title to people between 18-21 and distinguishes level of authority/experience etc which MIGHT have something to do with the rates CAP gets....  [i could be wrong, just a guess]
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Joshua Rivera, Capt, CAP
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mikeylikey
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« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2008, 04:49:08 PM »

We have FO's because the AF doesn't want us to 18 year old Lt's or 19 year old Capt's.

Really?  Is that stated somewhere?  Because you can be a Real Military Officer at 19, possibly 18. 

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JayT
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« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2008, 07:00:57 PM »

I think we should also get rid of the title Flight Officer as well. 

Not to drift, but why do we have FO's? If a FO turns into the equivalent grade when they're 21, why not just have al l18 year-olds start like the rest of us.



I like being different.
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Walkman
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« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2008, 07:26:32 PM »

I like being different.

Hope I didn't offend...

I asked because I just found out about FOs. I had been recruiting a 17 y/o around October. He finally showed up and I found out he just turned 18, so I had the whole Flight Officer thing explained to me so I could explain it to him.
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JayT
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« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2008, 08:09:59 PM »

I like being different.

Hope I didn't offend...

I asked because I just found out about FOs. I had been recruiting a 17 y/o around October. He finally showed up and I found out he just turned 18, so I had the whole Flight Officer thing explained to me so I could explain it to him.
You didn't  :)
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afgeo4
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« Reply #30 on: January 17, 2008, 01:50:42 AM »

Well, all but a few dozen adults (the few NCOs) are actually CAP officers  or "senior members", so it makes a lot of sense to me.  Someone suggested changing "senior member" to "Officer Candidate", and that wouldn't be too bad. 

Actually... senior members without grade aren't officers. Just like OCS candidates and cadets aren't officers.

They will become officers when they get promoted to 2nd Lt, if they get promoted to 2nd Lt, the first officer grade. As such, they are members who have yet to prove themselves of the title "Officer" which carries the responsibility and privilege of leading.

As such, why not call them Non-Commissioned Officers, Officers, and Officer Candidates? As a whole, they should still be called senior members. The association of the word "Senior" in Senior Members only exists because so many of our members are of retirement age. You don't see such associations in the Senior NCO ranks or Seniors in High School or College or Senior Board Members in corporations.

I think we need to just call things as we call things... Senior Members and just reaffirm the differences between that and how old people are.
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GEORGE LURYE
dwb
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« Reply #31 on: January 17, 2008, 11:04:58 AM »

What is the average age of a senior member?

I'm inclined, at times, to think the label is apt...
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sparks
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Posts: 269

« Reply #32 on: January 17, 2008, 11:48:00 AM »

In addition to the average age question, I wonder what percentage of CAP "senior Members" never advanced to 2LT rank? If that percentage is insignificant maybe calling all "seniors" "officers" would be OK.
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jimmydeanno
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« Reply #33 on: January 17, 2008, 12:24:09 PM »

So in looking at these solutions, what is the actual problem?  Is it to eliminate confusion between ourselves and the outside public?  Is it an "inside" terminology thing?

The average person on the street, when they ask about CAP and what you are (not what you do), what is the easiest way to describe what your status is in the organization? 

I usually tell people I am an adult volunteer who helps train cadets.  They understand that - easily.  It also makes it sound like something they can do or can relate to.  In my case (CP guy) people automatically make a connection between that and someone like a Boy Scout troop leader. 

Internally, however, is another story - we understand what we are.  If calling ourselves "Officers" works, so be it.  I don't really care, it doesn't really matter [to me].
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Gunner C
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« Reply #34 on: January 17, 2008, 12:41:10 PM »

What is the average age of a senior member?

I'm inclined, at times, to think the label is apt...

I just did a query on our region - the average is 33.  Your mileage may vary.

GC
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Tim Medeiros
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« Reply #35 on: January 17, 2008, 12:58:44 PM »

What is the average age of a senior member?

I'm inclined, at times, to think the label is apt...
According to the PD seminar at National Boards in Atlanta, 54
In addition to the average age question, I wonder what percentage of CAP "senior Members" never advanced to 2LT rank? If that percentage is insignificant maybe calling all "seniors" "officers" would be OK.
From the same seminar a break down of membership by grade
Enlisted  49
SM          7755
2d Lt      4615
1st Lt     5405
Capt       6066
Maj         4703
Lt Col     4215
Col         417
Gen        14

Other interesting info from that powerpoint presentation:
Milestone Non-Completions:
Level 1: 12.3%
Level 2: 71.0%
Level 3: 78.5%
Level 4: 88.8%
Level 5: 95.4%

Average Completion Time
Level 1: 1.2 Years
Level 2: 5.4 Years
Level 3: 7.5 Years
Level 4: 10.3 Years
Level 5: 12.2 Years

Average unit strength: 11 seniors (interesting note, the chart goes to 155 without zero-ing out)
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TIMOTHY R. MEDEIROS, Lt Col, CAP
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Smokey
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« Reply #36 on: January 17, 2008, 01:45:50 PM »

Besides loosing the term senior member, we need to loose the name "Senior Squadron".   It sound like a squadron for retired members.  I've heard cracks from cadets about "Senior Squadrons" being nothing but a bunch of old geezers.

Cadet squadrons are fine, composite squadrons are fine, but we need something other than "Senior Squadron".  I've come across AF folks who get a puzzled look as to what a senior squadron is and in recruiting folks some civilian prospects have said they don't want to be in a "Senior" squadron as they aren't retired. It takes some explaining.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2008, 03:16:06 PM by Smokey » Logged
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RogueLeader
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« Reply #37 on: January 17, 2008, 03:11:03 PM »

Officer squadrons- nope we have NonComs. . . hmm. . . .Adult Squadrons,  sounds a little risque.

Adult Squadron might be ok though.
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jimmydeanno
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« Reply #38 on: January 17, 2008, 03:13:19 PM »

So would "Operations Squadron" or "Mission Support Squadron."  Since that's what they do.  So the breakdown would be:

Cadet Squadron
Operations Squadron or MSS
Composite Squadron

Sounds good to me. Since the title of the squadrons should reflect what they do rather than who's in it.
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LittleIronPilot
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Posts: 232

« Reply #39 on: January 17, 2008, 03:52:15 PM »

So would "Operations Squadron" or "Mission Support Squadron."  Since that's what they do.  So the breakdown would be:

Cadet Squadron
Operations Squadron or MSS
Composite Squadron

Sounds good to me. Since the title of the squadrons should reflect what they do rather than who's in it.

I like that!

BTW...when I joined our Composite Squadron I mentioned I might like to do PT with the Cadets. One of the leadership mentioned that was great as the Cadets thought all of the Senior Members were just that...Senior, as in OLD.

BTW...I am both the Emergency Services Officer and IT Officer for my squadron. So am I an "officer" or not? I am not called the ES Senior Member.

I prefer the term Officer over SM any day of the week.
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  The Lobby  |  Topic: Losing the term "Officer" as a generic term for Senior Members
 


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