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RiverAux
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« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2008, 01:50:56 AM »

2.2c means that if you are married you can only join as a cadet if you are under the age of 18
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afgeo4
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« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2008, 08:27:06 AM »


<from CAP Knowledgebase>

CAPR 39-2
Chapter 2 - Cadet Membership

2-2. Requirements for Initial Membership. All applicants for cadet membership must meet the following prerequisites:
a. Twelve years of age through 18 years of age. Note: Individuals applying for membership in a squadron that is participating in CAPís middle school initiative may join if they are below age 12 as long as they are attending at least the sixth grade in the appropriate middle school. These squadrons are monitored by the Cadet Programs Directorate at National Headquarters and have a distinguishing charter number that identifies them as participants of this program.
c. Single or married and under age 18.

These are quotes from the Regulation. I use paragraph C to explain the term "through". It is very specific.
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GEORGE LURYE
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« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2008, 09:01:21 AM »

Para c. is missing a comma that significantly changes the meaning.

Single or married and under age 18, is ambiguous and can be interpreted two ways.

Single or married, and under age 18, is probably incorrect. Marital status would have no meaning.

Single, or married and under age 18, is what was probably meant.

If you think commas are unimportant, consider the difference between:

... my parents, the Pope, and Mother Theresa ...

and

... my parents, the Pope and Mother Theresa ...

YMMV.
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Dave Bowles
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ZigZag911
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« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2008, 03:34:57 AM »

I joined at 16 3/4 years of age....squadron was less than a year old, most of the 'charter member' cadets were a year or so younger than I was....caught up with them fairly quickly, got my Mitchell in 18 months, Earhart about 7-8 months afterwards....stayed cadet a total of about 3 years, enjoyed every minute.....became a senior during junior year of college, transitioning was tough, the "real" adults did not know what to do with me!
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W3ZR
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« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2008, 05:38:11 AM »

I wasnt even given an option the first time I joined,
(I was 18) or I would have went the Cadet route.

Not for the "bling", but for the discipline, I probably
would have stayed in and been a Captain by now.

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Robert Montgomery, soon to be former Captain, CAP
DNall
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« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2008, 03:09:00 AM »

Well, if you started a new squadron and don't have any advanced cadets, meaning NCOs or Officers, then perhaps a more mature cadet airman could fill that roll.  If you had 10 cadet airman and needed one to be the cadet commander, would you want the 12 year old or the 17 year old?
No offense on this, but... If you have 10 cadet amn, you not only don't need a cadet commander, you need not to have one, nor flt CC or any other officer position.

You need to cover those roles as an adult cadet programs officer until there are people with the experience, maturity, & competence to do the job. Otherwise you are just setting them up for failure individually & allowing them to deliver failure to the group.

You need to spend your time intensely training up a couple flt sgts. Then, you need to work on expansion. When you have two flights with consistent attendance & are a year in, with a half dozen good potential flt sgts, couple being mid-grade NCOs, then you can start working on a couple flt CC candidates. People learn from failure when they are in a position to do so, not when they are tossed in over their heads & allowed to be overwhelmed. That just teaches them to take on things they aren't able to handle alone & give up when it gets too hard.

NHQ has a new manual out that covers this pretty well. I strongly advise giving it a look.


Now, far as recruiting 16-17yo cadets, you absolutely should. What you do or do not get out of the program has very little to do with how far you progress in the testing/promotions. We don't have a cadet program to make spaatz cadets or even mitchell cadets. We have a program to shape young people, and that happens by being a part of it, not by being turned away. I'd also note that it only takes about 18mos to make mitchell. For a 17yo HS junior, they do have time for that before college. And yes, they may choose (as a lot do) to continue participating in Wg/Gp level activities & promoting while at college, even if they can't necessarily participate in the traditional sense.
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SAR-EMT1
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« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2008, 05:04:48 AM »

FYI, I did the math... under the new program the minimum time to get to
 C/2nd Lt from C/AB is 17 months. ( Not including the ROTC shortcut) *

 *  A cadet at a service academy or enrolled in a collegiate ROTC must wait only 1 month between promotions.

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C. A. Edgar
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mikeylikey
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« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2008, 03:22:11 PM »

^ I never agreed with that.  What makes them so special??

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MIKE
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« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2008, 03:50:19 PM »

*  A cadet at a service academy or enrolled in a collegiate ROTC must wait only 1 month between promotions.

Cite please... It aint in CAPR 52-16 Chapter 6... Thats for JROTC. 
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Mike Johnston
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« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2008, 05:33:02 PM »

*  A cadet at a service academy or enrolled in a collegiate ROTC must wait only 1 month between promotions.

Cite please... It aint in CAPR 52-16 Chapter 6... Thats for JROTC. 

I know the reg cites JROTC, however, when I was in college myself, the CAP faction at the det stated what I had above. A call to suzie parker verified this.  This was fall of 2003
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C. A. Edgar
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JayT
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« Reply #30 on: January 14, 2008, 10:45:19 PM »

*  A cadet at a service academy or enrolled in a collegiate ROTC must wait only 1 month between promotions.

Cite please... It aint in CAPR 52-16 Chapter 6... Thats for JROTC. 

I know the reg cites JROTC, however, when I was in college myself, the CAP faction at the det stated what I had above. A call to suzie parker verified this.  This was fall of 2003


So why did you cite a regulation for something that has nothing to do with what you said?
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SAR-EMT1
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« Reply #31 on: January 15, 2008, 03:50:55 AM »

*  A cadet at a service academy or enrolled in a collegiate ROTC must wait only 1 month between promotions.

Cite please... It aint in CAPR 52-16 Chapter 6... Thats for JROTC. 

I know the reg cites JROTC, however, when I was in college myself, the CAP faction at the det stated what I had above. A call to suzie parker verified this.  This was fall of 2003


So why did you cite a regulation for something that has nothing to do with what you said?

Suzie gave me to understand that the reg also applied to collegiate types as well.
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C. A. Edgar
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DNall
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« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2008, 04:09:58 AM »

I don't disagree with allowing one month promotions for collegiate level ROTC or service acads. We have a really hard time retaining cadets after they go off to college. At that point they are finishing up the program out of pride. There's no longer any real world benefit for them (enlistment or credit). However, it would need to be added to the reg. Just saying those too are included in the JROTC waiver doesn't work. If that were the case then you'd still need 2-3-4 years of experience combined between JROTC & the college level. That would exclude people with no JROTC background.

Just to clarify, you don't need to be active in a JROTC program to begin or continue on such a waiver. It's satisfactory completion of a number of years waivers time in grade through progressive levels of the program. You can discontinue JROTC & stay on the waiver up to the level you've attained.

As far as why that waiver is there... it was originally only for AFJROTC, and the point of it was that the curriculum is basically the same (being it was taken from ours when they got started), as well as the leadership & experience in a military based program. They still satisfy all the same requirements as anyone else, so it is completely fair. Those kids can be a real benefit to your program if you'll utilize them in their strengths & help them with their weaknesses. if you do that, you'll find they are developmentally ready to serve at a higher grade position fairly quick. That's why that program is there.
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afgeo4
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« Reply #33 on: January 17, 2008, 06:00:28 AM »

Para c. is missing a comma that significantly changes the meaning.

Single or married and under age 18, is ambiguous and can be interpreted two ways.

Single or married, and under age 18, is probably incorrect. Marital status would have no meaning.

Single, or married and under age 18, is what was probably meant.

If you think commas are unimportant, consider the difference between:

... my parents, the Pope, and Mother Theresa ...

and

... my parents, the Pope and Mother Theresa ...

YMMV.

It's exactly marital status that has meaning. It has to be an exception, just like a cadet who is pregnant.
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GEORGE LURYE
afgeo4
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« Reply #34 on: January 17, 2008, 06:02:27 AM »

I wasnt even given an option the first time I joined,
(I was 18) or I would have went the Cadet route.

Not for the "bling", but for the discipline, I probably
would have stayed in and been a Captain by now.


That's because there really is NO option. If you're 18 when you join, you're a senior member.
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GEORGE LURYE
afgeo4
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« Reply #35 on: January 17, 2008, 06:06:16 AM »

I don't disagree with allowing one month promotions for collegiate level ROTC or service acads. We have a really hard time retaining cadets after they go off to college. At that point they are finishing up the program out of pride. There's no longer any real world benefit for them (enlistment or credit). However, it would need to be added to the reg. Just saying those too are included in the JROTC waiver doesn't work. If that were the case then you'd still need 2-3-4 years of experience combined between JROTC & the college level. That would exclude people with no JROTC background.

Just to clarify, you don't need to be active in a JROTC program to begin or continue on such a waiver. It's satisfactory completion of a number of years waivers time in grade through progressive levels of the program. You can discontinue JROTC & stay on the waiver up to the level you've attained.

As far as why that waiver is there... it was originally only for AFJROTC, and the point of it was that the curriculum is basically the same (being it was taken from ours when they got started), as well as the leadership & experience in a military based program. They still satisfy all the same requirements as anyone else, so it is completely fair. Those kids can be a real benefit to your program if you'll utilize them in their strengths & help them with their weaknesses. if you do that, you'll find they are developmentally ready to serve at a higher grade position fairly quick. That's why that program is there.
The only waiver is for cadets with current JROTC standing (any branch) and at least 2 years Time In Service (TIS) as a cadet.

Cadets with 2 years in JROTC get to promote at accelerated rate up to Mitchell Award
Cadets with 3 years in JROTC get to promote at accelerated rate up to Earhart Award
Cadets with 4 years in JROTC get to promote at accelerated rate up to Eaker Award

Those JROTC cadets who've completed the AFJROTC Summer Leadership School are credited with an encampment. All other branches are not.

ROTC cadets are given very different training. 1st and 2nd year cadets/midshipmen are given VERY limited leadership training. Instead, they focus on familiarization with the ways of the military and their specific branch. The first 2 years are introductory. It is after the cadet/midshipman goes to the cadet basic training in summer between sophomore and junior year that they start becoming leaders. By that time, most cadets are either 20 or 21, so it's a moot point. That's why ROTC cadets aren't given the same privileges in CAP.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2008, 06:24:13 AM by afgeo4 » Report to moderator   Logged
GEORGE LURYE
brasda91
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« Reply #36 on: January 18, 2008, 09:52:14 PM »


That's because there really is NO option. If you're 18 when you join, you're a senior member.


That's what I thought.  But everything National publishes on Cadet Programs says 12-18.  I take that to mean if you're 18, you have the option to join as a cadet.  Otherwise it would say 12-17.  I dunno anymore.
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afgeo4
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« Reply #37 on: January 18, 2008, 09:58:03 PM »

So call membership services and ask them.
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GEORGE LURYE
mikeylikey
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« Reply #38 on: January 18, 2008, 10:00:59 PM »

ROTC cadets are given very different training. 1st and 2nd year cadets/midshipmen are given VERY limited leadership training. Instead, they focus on familiarization with the ways of the military and their specific branch. The first 2 years are introductory. It is after the cadet/midshipman goes to the cadet basic training in summer between sophomore and junior year that they start becoming leaders. By that time, most cadets are either 20 or 21, so it's a moot point. That's why ROTC cadets aren't given the same privileges in CAP.

Not exactly.  The AROTC program has a successive leadership development program that begins day 1.  The books and presentations always have underlying leadership principles and doctrine.  I would say ROTC in college is better at the presentation of leadership subjects to Cadet than the JROTC counterpart.  It is a shame More credit is not given for ROTC classes in College.  Perhaps we should change that!  Lets say a 21 year old ROTC Cadet decides to join CAP.  Depending on what year of ROTC she is in she should come into CAP at an advanced Rank.  Say 1 year ROTC=immediate 2nd LT (don't wait 6 months), 2 years= 1st LT, 3 years=Capt.  I have seen advanced appointment waivers already go up the chain in PAWG for Cadets transitioning to CAP Officer and they only have 2 years of ROTC completed, and used the ROTC as the basis for the request for advanced grade.

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afgeo4
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« Reply #39 on: January 18, 2008, 10:03:57 PM »

Which is fine and I agree with that if it comes to senior membership. The topic was of relevance of ROTC to Cadet membership.

I have many friends who have completed and/or are in ROTC detachments of all 4 branches. The leadership training they are given in the first two years is fairly conceptual. Actual leadership roles aren't really given out until the Junior year. That is quite different from Academies, where low leadership positions are given out in Sophomore year.
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GEORGE LURYE
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: 17 year olds.
 


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