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Air Force Museum

Started by mikeylikey, October 06, 2007, 03:02:12 AM

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mikeylikey

Well I was Wright-Patterson AFB this past Wednesday and took a 3 hour (self guided) tour of the AF Museum.  I was very impressed.  What I was not impressed with was that they removed the CAP airplane that was hanging, and the display and signage that went with it.  I inquired about it on my way out, and was told that it had been permanently removed, nothing would be replacing it.  That is shocking!  There was a brand new space and missile room, but nothing about CAP.  They used to have a rather large display about the "Air Force Auxiliary".  This being the anniversary, they had everything about the AF, including womens auxiliary "morale clubs" during WWII and things not even closely related to the AF.

Just thought I would bring my dissapointment to everyone's attention.  What a shame!  CAP produced some very interesting AF history, but nothing was told about it.  Perhaps it is a "sign of the times"......AF moving away from us?
What's up monkeys?

NEBoom

I work at the Strategic Air and Space Museum (formerly known as the SAC Museum) here in Nebraska.  I've batted around the idea of putting together a CAP display for the museum, but it hasn't gotten any farther than an idea in the back of my head (time, money, resources kind of thing).  I might talk to the curator if I get a chance and see what it would take to get some of the AF Museum's CAP display on loan.  I never saw the display there, was it decent?
Lt Col Dan Kirwan, CAP
Nebraska Wing

JohnKachenmeister

Small, but decent.  There was a CAP airplane, some old photos, some news articles about CAP, and some dummies wearing old uniforms.  It was in the section of the museum highlighting rescue activities.

The cadets always puffed up with some pride when they encountered it!
Another former CAP officer

RiverAux

Jeez, you'd think an organization that makes up a significant proportion of the AF family could get a little recognition.  Say, caphistorian, can you see what is going on with this? 

NEBoom

Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on October 06, 2007, 03:30:50 AM
Small, but decent.  There was a CAP airplane, some old photos, some news articles about CAP, and some dummies wearing old uniforms.  It was in the section of the museum highlighting rescue activities.

The cadets always puffed up with some pride when they encountered it!

Well, for my idea, small is good.  Can make a better pitch to the curator if I'm not asking for huge amounts of floor space.  Hmmm....  :-\
Lt Col Dan Kirwan, CAP
Nebraska Wing

ZigZag911

I saw it about 25 years ago, took a summer program at U. of Dayton....recall it as a good exhibit....there really ought to be some acknowledgement of CAP there.

LtCol White

The museum at Warner Robins AFB in GA has a nice CAP display. Even has the uniform of a cadet colonel who became a police officer in the city and was killed in the line of duty on display.
LtCol David P. White CAP   
HQ LAWG

Admiral, Great Navy of the State of Nebraska

Diplomacy - The ability to tell someone to "Go to hell" and have them look forward to making the trip.

RocketPropelled

The CAP airplanes were moved to a different area of the museum.  The Fairchild and Stinson painted in CAP colors are hanging in the Presidential Hangar with all the former Air Force One birds.  Odd place for them, but they are indeed on display.

I wouldn't have noticed them if I hadn't hip-checked myself into the floor-mounted "hey, look up here" displays below the airplanes.

See Page 56 of the Sept-Oct issue of the Volunteer -- the cadets from Tullahoma in the picture are grouped under the yellow CAP airplane in that hangar.

Enjoy!

addo1

  Like I said earlier, my squadron went to the Frontiers of Flight museum at Lovefield in Texas.  There was many cool aircraft they had there and we had an awesome time!  Lots of AF history there. 
Addison Jaynes, SFO, CAP
Coordinator, Texas Wing International Air Cadet Exchange


National Cadet Advisory Council 2010

RiverAux

I'd say that Mikey's trip this past week trumps a photo taken earlier this year assuming mikey went in the hanger where rocket says it was moved. 


SDF_Specialist

That is disappointing. I wonder if it is a sign of things to come? Could Wright-Patt be eliminating the location for the OHWG encampment as well?
SDF_Specialist

Pujol.j

Well that is a shame that the AF at the museum removed the CAP Aircraft in display that is an insult to us that are veterants and also members of CAP,here we are working for the USA as with great deal of dedication to our asigned duties and we are being kicked around by some people that do not reconised our efforts in watever mission we are requested to do. SHAME SHAME SHAME to those in command that order the removal.              Sincerly a dedicated member of New Jersey Wing.                                    2nd Lt Jaime Pujol Sr.

AlphaSigOU

#12
Quote from: addo1 on October 06, 2007, 02:36:13 PM
  Like I said earlier, my squadron went to the Frontiers of Flight museum at Lovefield in Texas.  There was many cool aircraft they had there and we had an awesome time!  Lots of AF history there. 

I still get a chuckle out of the Jupiter missile displayed outside with two aft skirts. No Jupiter missile ever flew that way.  ;D Just like Saturn V models painted in a scheme that never flew.

<- rabid rocket geek
Lt Col Charles E. (Chuck) Corway, CAP
Gill Robb Wilson Award (#2901 - 2011)
Amelia Earhart Award (#1257 - 1982) - C/Major (retired)
Billy Mitchell Award (#2375 - 1981)
Administrative/Personnel/Professional Development Officer
Nellis Composite Squadron (PCR-NV-069)
KJ6GHO - NAR 45040

AlphaSigOU

Quote from: Pujol.j on October 06, 2007, 03:59:37 PM
Well that is a shame that the AF at the museum removed the CAP Aircraft in display that is an insult to us that are veterants and also members of CAP,here we are working for the USA as with great deal of dedication to our asigned duties and we are being kicked around by some people that do not reconised our efforts in watever mission we are requested to do. SHAME SHAME SHAME to those in command that order the removal.              Sincerly a dedicated member of New Jersey Wing.                                    2nd Lt Jaime Pujol Sr.

Lt Pujol,

They didn't take down the CAP aircraft display at the National Museum of the U.S. Air Force - merely relocated it to another hangar within the museum complex. Museums will do that once in a while, especially with smaller displays. Sucks that it's not in the main display area, but anything's better than nothing.
Lt Col Charles E. (Chuck) Corway, CAP
Gill Robb Wilson Award (#2901 - 2011)
Amelia Earhart Award (#1257 - 1982) - C/Major (retired)
Billy Mitchell Award (#2375 - 1981)
Administrative/Personnel/Professional Development Officer
Nellis Composite Squadron (PCR-NV-069)
KJ6GHO - NAR 45040

James Shaw

AlphaSigOU is correct. All museum whether they are private or military routinely change the displays to reflect current trends and customer feedback. Patrons of the museums for somewhere like that are listened to. I have talked with curators of other museums both here in GA and in FLA and they all do the same. If I can remember correctly this is a GIST of the info:

1. You see the same thing over and over and you stop going (no money)
2. Benefactors of the museums like to see things they help fund displayed (more money)
3. Patrons give feedback over time and tell how they would like to see new things to draw them in (again more money)
4. With the limited number of CAP displays we should be thankful that they have displayed our history for such a perdiod of time without support from CAP (money).
5. It cost alot of money to maintain these collections (repair, cataloging, maintenance, staff)

The portion of the National CAP Collection is only about 1/3 of the total we have. Wright Patterson is going to be building a new building and we are in negotiations with them about a larger CAP display and we dont want those talks to go south.

There are 5 relatively large collections of CAP materials right now. 4 of them are CAP members and the 1 other is a former member. I know that 4 of the five actively show this when we have the chance.


Lt. Col. Bill Schell National Curator has the National Collection appr 15,000 pieces
Lt. Col Weist I believe in Calif (collection size unknown)
Lt. Col. Bill Breeze (former member collection size unknown)
Lt. Col. Todd Engelman (appr 5,000 pieces)
Myself (collection appr 3,000 pieces)

Between many of these members we try to help supply items to displays that are maintained and secure. I know that it is costly to store these in a good controllable environment. My collection takes up a 6 x 8 foot section inside my office and that doesnt count uniforms handing in another closet. Lt. Col. Schell will actually drive to some states to display the items within reason. He drove from Aberdeen MD to South GA for a wing conference.
Jim Shaw
USN: 1987-1992
GANG: 1996-1998
CAP:2000 - Current
USCGA:2018 - Current
SGAUS: 2017 - Current

SeattleSarge

The two CAP aircraft are hanging in the hangar with the collection of former Air Force One aircraft.  You have to take a short bus ride to view the additional collection.

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z281/kb7jcp/PiperCub.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z281/kb7jcp/IM001782.jpg

I found them during my visit in May of this year.  I don't think displaying our historic aircraft with presidential aircraft is an insult.

-SeattleSarge
Ronald G. Kruml, TSgt, CAP
Public Affairs - Mission Aircrewman
Seattle Composite Squadron PCR-WA-018
http://www.capseattlesquadron.org

mikeylikey

Quote from: SeattleSarge on October 06, 2007, 08:49:18 PM
The two CAP aircraft are hanging in the hangar with the collection of former Air Force One aircraft.  You have to take a short bus ride to view the additional collection.

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z281/kb7jcp/PiperCub.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z281/kb7jcp/IM001782.jpg

I found them during my visit in May of this year.  I don't think displaying our historic aircraft with presidential aircraft is an insult.

-SeattleSarge

Yes, yes......they were displayed over there.  However, since then (and I think the info desk people said) they were removed last month.  They also removed a rather large display of uniforms, papers, and photos from the WWII area(s).  So in short, no more CAP airplanes, no more CAP historical items.  In fact the whole museum looked like a tornado hit it.  I was disappointed.  PLUS I got stuck at one point behind a rather large group of Japanese visitors (I am in some of their pics now though). 
What's up monkeys?

Skyray

I was intrigued with the identification of the owners of significant CAP collections of memoribilia:

Lt. Col. Bill Breeze (former member collection size unknown)

As a former Director of the Valiant Air Command Museum in Titusville, this immediately piqued my interest.  I know Bill is up in that area somewhere, and my back channel information is that he was one of those terminations of questionable validity that Florida is so famous for.  We should see if he is interested in returning to CAP, and while we are about it, solicit him to place items with the Valiant Air Command.  Their focus is mostly WW II and military, but I am relatively sure that they could be persuaded to put up a CAP exhibit with explanations of the part CAP played in WW II.
Doug Johnson - Miami

Always Active-Sometimes a Member

JohnKachenmeister

Quote from: Skyray on October 07, 2007, 04:52:55 PM
I was intrigued with the identification of the owners of significant CAP collections of memoribilia:

Lt. Col. Bill Breeze (former member collection size unknown)

As a former Director of the Valiant Air Command Museum in Titusville, this immediately piqued my interest.  I know Bill is up in that area somewhere, and my back channel information is that he was one of those terminations of questionable validity that Florida is so famous for.  We should see if he is interested in returning to CAP, and while we are about it, solicit him to place items with the Valiant Air Command.  Their focus is mostly WW II and military, but I am relatively sure that they could be persuaded to put up a CAP exhibit with explanations of the part CAP played in WW II.

I have already discussed such an exhibit with Bubba Smith, who you may alredy know.  He is interested.  I simply don't hve access to enough memorabilia, although I have some wings and stuff from the 60's (mine).
Another former CAP officer

JohnKachenmeister

Note to any CAPtalk Yankees:

Yes, there ARE people in the South who really are named "Bubba."

Deal with it!
Another former CAP officer

Skyray

Kach:

I have already discussed such an exhibit with Bubba Smith, who you may already know.  He is interested.  I simply don't have access to enough memorabilia, although I have some wings and stuff from the 60's (mine).


My best friend from high school is named Bubba, although not Bubba Smith.

I am ancient history up there, and Bubba Smith replaced the Executive Director that was there on my watch.  My replacement on the Board was Barry Bobes, whom I have not heard from in years although I get regular updates from his former spouse on the Pineda issue.  She was a member of the Southeast Region IG staff. I have no information on either of their membership status at this time.  The Valiant Air Command is a fun group.  They do an annual WW II theme air show, timed the week before Lakeland to keep ferry costs for the participants down, and when you join, you are automatically promoted to Colonel, an effort to keep the political maneuvers down.
Doug Johnson - Miami

Always Active-Sometimes a Member

SeattleSarge

Quote from: mikeylikey on October 07, 2007, 01:46:19 PM
Yes, yes......they were displayed over there.  However, since then (and I think the info desk people said) they were removed last month. 

Wow, this is disturbing.  Since they're taking my money as a "Friend of the National AF Museum", I'm going to write and try to confirm what Mikey was told.

I'll post the results here.

-SeattleSarge
Ronald G. Kruml, TSgt, CAP
Public Affairs - Mission Aircrewman
Seattle Composite Squadron PCR-WA-018
http://www.capseattlesquadron.org

mikeylikey

^ I almost signed up for that. 
What's up monkeys?

JohnKachenmeister

Quote from: Skyray on October 07, 2007, 05:13:23 PM
Kach:

I have already discussed such an exhibit with Bubba Smith, who you may already know.  He is interested.  I simply don't have access to enough memorabilia, although I have some wings and stuff from the 60's (mine).


My best friend from high school is named Bubba, although not Bubba Smith.

I am ancient history up there, and Bubba Smith replaced the Executive Director that was there on my watch.  My replacement on the Board was Barry Bobes, whom I have not heard from in years although I get regular updates from his former spouse on the Pineda issue.  She was a member of the Southeast Region IG staff. I have no information on either of their membership status at this time.  The Valiant Air Command is a fun group.  They do an annual WW II theme air show, timed the week before Lakeland to keep ferry costs for the participants down, and when you join, you are automatically promoted to Colonel, an effort to keep the political maneuvers down.

We have a recruiting tent at the Valiant Warbird show, and we have the cadets help out with crowd and traffic control on the flightline.  Last March, we were there when a jet crashed, killing the pilot.  Our cadets manned a perimeter around a Canadian Forces helicopter that went up to find a way for firemen to get into the wooded crash site.  The cadets cleared the area of debris and kept spectators 100 feet away while they spooled up for the launch.  The CF pilot made a pint of coming over to tank us, saying "We could not have launched safely without the quick action of your people."
Another former CAP officer

Skyray

Kach:

"We could not have launched safely without the quick action of your people."

Always good to hear that the program responds and performs well.  I was the director of communications at the 1994 warbird show, and Barry arranged for a contingent of cadets from the west coast.  They were exemplary!  There was a minor problem when his squadron 2Bed my cadet liaison officer, but we worked around it.  This was the 2B that put Pringle and Bowling at odds, and resulted in the appointment of Pineda.  Bowling had his IG unilaterally re member my liaison officer, so the first time I got into this mess I was on the other side.  But that is not the point.  The point is that those thirty cadets were absolutely instrumental.  They worked the com center, they ran dispatches, they guarded the flight line, they did crowd control.  And there were enough of them that I was able to see that most of them saw most of the show.  A really inspiring experience.
Doug Johnson - Miami

Always Active-Sometimes a Member

SeattleSarge

Message from the Museum Staff:

TSgt. Kruml,

The CAP aircraft are still on display in the Presidential Hanger and there are no plans to move them. Please advise us as to where or from whom your information came from and we will make sure that they have the correct information.

http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=6328

http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=576

Sincerely,
Public Affairs Division
National Museum USAF
NationalMuseum.MU@WPAFB.AF.MIL

Not sure what's going on...  Mikey, you may want to contact them directly.

-SeattleSarge
Ronald G. Kruml, TSgt, CAP
Public Affairs - Mission Aircrewman
Seattle Composite Squadron PCR-WA-018
http://www.capseattlesquadron.org