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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: Limits on taking Prof. Dev. courses
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Pylon
Administrator

Posts: 5,136
Unit: NER-NH-038

Michael Kieloch, Marketing Communications & PR Leadership
« on: June 19, 2005, 10:43:23 PM »

What do you all think of a Wing policy which limits the hows and whens of taking Professional Development courses?

This includes a 6-month limit between taking any Professional Development courses.  So for example, if you took an SLS and 5 months later a UCC was to be offered, you could only take one or the other.
 
This also includes certain mandatory pre-requisites, such as even if you've got plenty of time in CAP, you can't take the UCC  or the CLC before the SLS.
 
Thoughts?
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Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP
Concord Composite Squadron, NH       
arajca
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 4,309

« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2005, 11:11:42 PM »

That would work if the courses were offered in a manner that allows for six month spacing. A realistic scenario:
2d Lt Jones take SLS in May. In July, he takes command of his unit, unexpectedly since his commander got transfered (and he stepped out when they were looking for volunteers ;)). UCC is offered in Oct, but he has to wait until the next one (which may be another 6,12 months).

Another.
1st Smith plans her CAP progression in relation to her work. She knows she will be able to attend the SLS in May and can get time to attend CLC or UCC in Sept, but cannot determine if she'll be able to get the time off for the next cycle.

--------

New seniors constantly complain about being unable to get training because it is so hard to come by. To tell them "you have to wait until next year" because someone scheduled it poorly will only increase their frustration. Added with the (at out west) limited networking opportunities, and you may wind up with career 2d Lt's or even higher lack of retention..
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PWK-GT
Forum Regular

Posts: 199

« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2005, 11:57:54 PM »

Yeah.........my only concern is for units like mine :) Until a larger SM element is snapped-up, we rely pretty heavily on SM's to get any training they can get, and 'bring it back' to the unit for sharing. I realize this is hardly the 'best case' scenario for running a unit, but you take the cards you get and play them. In a PERFECT world, there are enough members and enough time ( day jobs and families complicate this enough now  ::)) for this scenario to work.
Retention in some units would have to be negatively impacted, I would think.
Orwell had it right when he said "Some animals are more equal than others".

What positive benefits would there be from such a change? It's late and my mind has slowed down........
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"Is it Friday yet"

BlueLakes1
Forum Regular

Posts: 164
Unit: GLR-001

« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2005, 02:17:16 AM »

I'd have to think it would depend on how often the courses are offered in your area. Does your squadron do them in house, or do you rely only on wing to provide them? If there's a regular timetable of offerings you can stick to, I think that's fair. Unfortunately I ended up having 2 CLCs cancelled before I finally got to attend one, due to lack of students. If class cancellations are an issue, better to let people attend when one is put on without regard to timing.

I do think that UCC should be left out of the mix, though. You never know when someone might need to step up to the plate in their unit, and the class can be a great benefit. When looked at in a PD light, you will be required to get SLS and CLC to get your PD awards; UCC prepares you for a specific job that you may have to take on at any time, if you happen to be the (un)lucky one chosen. I have to admit that UCCs are hard to come by around here though. If it's like that there, I'd say let the unit commanders have discretion on sending the proper people when a class is offered without regards to time between the other classes.
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Col Matthew Creed, CAP
GLR/CC
Major_Chuck
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 554

« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2005, 03:49:06 PM »

I think here in Virginia they are spaced out but because everyone is at different levels and stages of their professional development you have to take the courses when you can get them.

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Chuck Cranford
SGT, TNCO VA OCS
Virginia Army National Guard
biZarre
Recruit

Posts: 14

Minnesota Wing Cadet Programs
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2005, 03:04:57 PM »

I would disagree with a mandatory 6 months between SLS and other senior classes.  The courses are different enough to keep it interesting, plus I would not want to hold a member back from taking the classes.
Also, as said before, it can be tough to get enough students in the CLC. 
 
It may also not be much of a problem, since it seems SLS and CLC are offered at intervals that exceed 6 months.   

In regards to taking the SLS first, then CLC or UCC, the 50-17 says that the SLS "should" come before CLC, which makes sense.  Here is the quote:

CAPR 50-17(E)
5-3. Corporate Learning Course (CLC).
After completing the Squadron Leadership School and learning about squadron operations, senior members should attend the
Corporate Learning Course (CLC).


I do not see a reference to the UCC class, so perhaps enrollment would be more a function of the likeliness of members becoming a unit CC in the near future.  In Minnesota Wing, the UCC class is held every other year at the annual Commanders Conference.  It seems that after two years, there is enough new CC's and CC's to be to have a decent size class. 
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Doug Kilian, Lt Col, CAP
Director of Cadet Programs
Minnesota Wing
Cadet Bonnett
Forum Regular

Posts: 136

« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2005, 04:01:23 PM »

What do you all think of a Wing policy which limits the hows and whens of taking Professional Development courses?

This includes a 6-month limit between taking any Professional Development courses.  So for example, if you took an SLS and 5 months later a UCC was to be offered, you could only take one or the other.
 
This also includes certain mandatory pre-requisites, such as even if you've got plenty of time in CAP, you can't take the UCC  or the CLC before the SLS.
 
Thoughts?

what do you mean every six months. Thats seems rather weird. Why? Well because can you train for more then one thing
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Cadet A1C Christin Bonnett
Registered Peer Mediator
SET, GES Certified
NH Wing

El Campamento del Ala de NH aquí yo vengo.
MIKE
Super Moderator

Posts: 5,459
Unit: LANTAREA

« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2005, 04:19:41 PM »

What do you all think of a Wing policy which limits the hows and whens of taking Professional Development courses?

This includes a 6-month limit between taking any Professional Development courses.  So for example, if you took an SLS and 5 months later a UCC was to be offered, you could only take one or the other.
 
This also includes certain mandatory pre-requisites, such as even if you've got plenty of time in CAP, you can't take the UCC  or the CLC before the SLS.
 
Thoughts?

what do you mean every six months. Thats seems rather weird. Why? Well because can you train for more then one thing


Only for some of the professional development courses... IIRC, you are supposed to do most of the big ones in order... There might be a waiver in there somewhere and there are the equivalent Professional Military Education (PME) courses, but generally you take them in order... SLS, CLC, RSC, NSC... Something like a UCC or a TLC (if you ever find one) you take whenever.

I don't see it as much of a problem... Time in grade requirements and all.

BTW Cheergirl, you have quite a bit of time before you have to start worrying about Professional Development and promotion requirements for senior members.  :)  Consider yourself lucky.  ;D

« Last Edit: June 24, 2005, 04:27:06 PM by MIKE » Logged
Mike Johnston
Cadet Bonnett
Forum Regular

Posts: 136

« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2005, 04:21:49 PM »

What do you all think of a Wing policy which limits the hows and whens of taking Professional Development courses?

This includes a 6-month limit between taking any Professional Development courses.  So for example, if you took an SLS and 5 months later a UCC was to be offered, you could only take one or the other.
 
This also includes certain mandatory pre-requisites, such as even if you've got plenty of time in CAP, you can't take the UCC  or the CLC before the SLS.
 
Thoughts?

what do you mean every six months. Thats seems rather weird. Why? Well because can you train for more then one thing


Only for some of the professional development courses... IIRC, you are supposed to do most of the big ones in order... There might be a waiver in there somewhere and there are the equivalent Professional Military Education (PME) courses, but generally you take them in order... SLS, CLC, RSC, NSC... Something like a UCC or a TLC (if you ever find one) you take whenever.

I don't it as much of a problem... Time in grade requirements and all.

BTW Cheergirl, you have quite a bit of time before you have to start worrying about Professional Development and promotion requirements for senior members.  :)  Consider yourself lucky.  ;D



Lt,

I know i was just saying.
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Cadet A1C Christin Bonnett
Registered Peer Mediator
SET, GES Certified
NH Wing

El Campamento del Ala de NH aquí yo vengo.
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: Limits on taking Prof. Dev. courses
 


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