May 25, 2020, 05:16:04 pm

Rank Confusion

Started by docspur, August 12, 2007, 11:32:12 am

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SDF_Specialist

Quote from: flyerthom on August 14, 2007, 07:54:10 am
I found it to weird. I remember being a new CAP guy with a fresh set of 1st Lt bars. I was walking back to my car after Aviation Nation at Nellis AFB and all these "real air force guys" snapping salutes and me rather embarrassed, returning them. I remember thinking "ah but but you guys are real, I'm just a regular guy in a flight suit." My CO reminded me, we're really on the same team but I still felt like a double A baseball player in a pennant game.


Well they may have known you were CAP, and were unsure as to if they have to salute you. Remember, when it doubt, pull it out. Or, they just felt it was necessary to salute. It's a nice gesture regardless. I'd say enjoy it. When I was in CAP, I walked past two AF TSgts who looked at my name tag and said "Oh. You're CAP. Why not get rid of that second line on the tag there, and become a real man?". I politely responded "Well I thank you for the offer, but I'm happy with the amount of man that I am volunteering for my country. Thank you for your service."
SDF_Specialist

SilverEagle2

Quote from: Cecil DP on December 10, 2009, 05:47:53 pm

In Vietnam we only saluted an Officer if we thought there was a sniper in the area.


That's just mean  >:D
     Jason R. Hess, Lt Col, CAP
Vice Commander, Utah Wing

"People are not excellent because they achieve great things;
they achieve great things because they choose to be excellent."
Gerald G. Probst,
Beloved Grandfather, WWII B-24 Pilot, Successful Businessman

Cecil DP

Quote from: SilverEagle2 on December 10, 2009, 06:36:59 pm
Quote from: Cecil DP on December 10, 2009, 05:47:53 pm

In Vietnam we only saluted an Officer if we thought there was a sniper in the area.


That's just mean  >:D


No, It's Darwinism
Michael P. McEleney
LtCol CAP
MSG  USA Retired
GRW#436 Feb 85

Gunner C

Quote from: Cecil DP on December 10, 2009, 05:47:53 pm
Quote from: JoeTomasone on October 19, 2009, 08:45:03 am
Beats me, but outside of a few posted "no salute" zones, it's universal outdoors on this FOB -- as near as I can tell, anyway; I don't go looking to see who is and isn't, but I see it often enough for it to be dismissed as an aberration.


In Vietnam we only saluted an Officer if we thought there was a sniper in the area.

Our greeting of the day "downrange" was "Sniper check, sir!" They'd feign ducking and ask us not to do that again.   8)

tarheel gumby

Had a Navy Master Chief Salute me when I was on encampment staff, at a FLWG winter encampment. The encampment was at Orlando NTC, I was wearing the Dark Blue winter combonation with SFO shoulder marks. I just returned the salute in the manner it was given, and kept on moving. Being a Navy Brat I have always held MCPO's in esteem, so when I was saluted by one I was shocked.
Joseph Myers Maj. CAP
Squadron Historian MER NC 019
Historian MER NC 001
Historian MER 001

PHall

Quote from: tarheel gumby on December 12, 2009, 01:33:09 pm
Had a Navy Master Chief Salute me when I was on encampment staff, at a FLWG winter encampment. The encampment was at Orlando NTC, I was wearing the Dark Blue winter combonation with SFO shoulder marks. I just returned the salute in the manner it was given, and kept on moving. Being a Navy Brat I have always held MCPO's in esteem, so when I was saluted by one I was shocked.


But you did exactly the "right" thing, returned the salute and got on with your business. :clap:

Redbird Leader

Back in '74 when I turned SM (due to enlisting in the AF), I was selected to be a Sqdn CC, even though I was only a Chief Warrant Officer (CWO).  When the papers were sent to Nat'l, they sent them back with the notation that cadets couldn't be squadron commanders (CWO).  That little slash (/) really does make a difference.
Commander, Redbird Cadet Sqdn (MO-801)
Captain, USAF (Ret)
Prior, never ex, cadet (Mitchell unnumbered Jul 71)

Dragon 3-2

Three times this year I have be saluted by Active duty

1.  Coming out of the Ft.Dix MCSS an Army SgtMaj saluted myself and my buddy, he a C/LtCol and me a C/Capt.

2. Three Army ROTC cadet 1st LT's Saluted me at encampment by the Ft.Dix chow hall, I'm a C/LtCol now and we use the same rank insignia as them.

3. by far the scariest of them all, also at encampment, while the basics were practicing for their graduation parade on the way to chow, as the PAO I ran a head of the formation to get a shot, and turned my back to a group of approaching active duty ( they were a ways off so I thought I was safe...boy was I wrong) out of the corner of my eye I saw ABU patter moving closer to me, so I turned to make sure I wasn't ignoring an officer and was greeted by an USAF Security Forces female 1st LT Saluting me.  out of pure shock a stammered getting my salute up and jumbled  what was intended to be "Good Afternoon Ma'am", into " Good Noon Ma'am". She smiled and said " Relax Colonel,  I was a C/Major before this", and we went about our duties.

Captain  Steven Smith
Aerospace Education Officer
NJ-102 Plainfield Red Falcons
Eaker #2089
2009 NJWG / NER Dragon Drill Team

Spaceman3750

Quote from: JoeTomasone on October 19, 2009, 05:03:49 am
I'm currently working as a civilian contractor in Iraq, where the soldiers (pretty much regardless of rank and probably having been instructed to) address us as "sir".


Many times people refer to individuals of equal or lower "rank" as sir simply out of respecting them as an all-around person, or to foster mutual respect. I am a network technician for a local school system and routinely call students "sir or ma'am" when they initiate a question or conversation with me simply because I want to show them that I respect them, and that in turn leads them to have a bit of respect for me. That means they're less likely to break my computer labs ^.^.

JoeTomasone

Quote from: Spaceman3750 on January 11, 2010, 10:03:41 am
Quote from: JoeTomasone on October 19, 2009, 05:03:49 am
I'm currently working as a civilian contractor in Iraq, where the soldiers (pretty much regardless of rank and probably having been instructed to) address us as "sir".


Many times people refer to individuals of equal or lower "rank" as sir simply out of respecting them as an all-around person, or to foster mutual respect. I am a network technician for a local school system and routinely call students "sir or ma'am" when they initiate a question or conversation with me simply because I want to show them that I respect them, and that in turn leads them to have a bit of respect for me.



As do I, but this is universal in anything but very casual conversation; not a random act of respect.   

You know the sad thing?  I am addressed as "sir" much more often as a civilian by RM personnel than I am in uniform as a CAP Officer by cadets and SMs of lower grade.




MSgt Van

While at Maxwell AFB I'm often mistaken for a MSgt...   ;D

Grumpy

Quote from: Spaceman3750 on January 11, 2010, 10:03:41 am
Quote from: JoeTomasone on October 19, 2009, 05:03:49 am
I'm currently working as a civilian contractor in Iraq, where the soldiers (pretty much regardless of rank and probably having been instructed to) address us as "sir".


Many times people refer to individuals of equal or lower "rank" as sir simply out of respecting them as an all-around person, or to foster mutual respect. I am a network technician for a local school system and routinely call students "sir or ma'am" when they initiate a question or conversation with me simply because I want to show them that I respect them, and that in turn leads them to have a bit of respect for me. That means they're less likely to break my computer labs ^.^.


What is the problem here?  Using the term "ma'am or "sir" is simple courtesy.  If you need a regulation to tell you who to say it to you're hurtin' for certain.

maverik

Plus isn't it just general military knowledge that civilian are "sir/ma'am".
KC9SFU
Fresh from the Mint C/LT
"Hard pressed on my right. My center is yielding. Impossible to maneuver. Situation excellent. I am attacking." Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne

JoeTomasone

First time I have encountered it in use.   In all my professional work with the military stateside I don't think I was ever addressed as "sir"; or certainly not to the degree that I took notice as I did here.   Might have to inquire about it.


AlphaSigOU

Back in my days WIWOAD I was an A1C working the chow hall at 'Spang-Quentin Federal Penitentiary' (Spangdahlem AB, Federal Republic of Germany, for the humor-challenged); for a few hours once a week I would swap stripes for 1st Lt bars and walk down the hill to our squadron meeting place on base.

Occasionally, I'd get saluted, and I would return the courtesy. The following morning I'd get double-takes from some airmen and NCOs when they saw me slinging hash for breakfast in cook's whites and A1C stripes. When questioned I politely explained and that was fine by them. The first shirt and the services squadron commander knew of my dual status and were OK with it - my CAP squadron commander (an AD SSgt and CAP Maj) was also in my squadron.
Lt Col Charles E. (Chuck) Corway, CAP
Gill Robb Wilson Award (#2901 - 2011)
Amelia Earhart Award (#1257 - 1982) - C/Major (retired)
Billy Mitchell Award (#2375 - 1981)
Administrative/Personnel/Professional Development Officer
Nellis Composite Squadron (PCR-NV-069)
KJ6GHO - NAR 45040

Dragon 3-2

I just thought of a way to avoid this problem all together, It'll prob bring a fire from the sky on be but here goes.

instead of senior members wearing the AF rank insignia, why not Gold versions of the cadet ranks? or use squares and triangles... just a thought

* digs foxhole *

Captain  Steven Smith
Aerospace Education Officer
NJ-102 Plainfield Red Falcons
Eaker #2089
2009 NJWG / NER Dragon Drill Team

Spike

^ There is no problem.  There is nothing that needs to be fixed.  If anything, older Cadet Officers are mistaken for Real Air Force Officers more than Fat donut eating Senior Members. 

Grumpy

Quote from: Spike on January 14, 2010, 03:11:53 pm
^ There is no problem.  There is nothing that needs to be fixed.  If anything, older Cadet Officers are mistaken for Real Air Force Officers more than Fat donut eating Senior Members.


Ooooo

mynetdude

I have no RM experience whatsoever.

I remember and will cherish these memories, I remember when I first started wearing the uniform soon I was calling every cadet ma'am and sir finally our c/CMSgt had to tell me that I do not call cadets ma'am and sir that I were to call them cadets and/or their ranks.

Then I remember I was looking for the DCC she was not in the classroom and so I happened to be in the classroom all the cadets came to attention, of course I was not sure what to do and the c/CMsgt again had to tell me I had to tell them "at ease" etc etc.

I have trouble making out the RM AF ranks on their collars on their BDUs as they are kind of dark so I salute them anyway (and get none back).  I LOOOVE those metal grades on the flight caps for those wearing the AF blues or flight suit I can see those much better than our own grade insignias

Wolfman21

Nice, :clap:, that one made me chuckle.. ;D I feel sorry for the person who returned the salute :'(
C/SrA Kidd
Element leader
GLR-KY-216
Ft. Campbell composite squadron
"EAGLES OF MERCEY"