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Author Topic: Rank Confusion  (Read 27042 times)
docspur
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« on: August 12, 2007, 11:32:12 AM »

Joining CAP and becoming an "officer" was a learning experience.  More used to the NCO ranks, becoming a Butterbar and then 1stLouie taught me that I really didn't know squat about accepting salutes, etc.  But I learned.  There were still plenty of Captains, Majors, etc over me so I still had to "whip it out" and that I was used to.  So I make Captain.  Whole new ball game but didn't really hit me until I enter the classroom at the armory where we hold our squadron meetings...I'm going to teach my first class of Aerospace Education.  I had recently transferred to the squadron and was still getting to know everyone...and I was getting used to my railroad tracks.  So, I walk into the classroom to teach and someone barks out "ROOM TEN HUT!"  Everyone jumped to their feet and snapped to attention.  I probably would've really been impressed, but I was busy at attention just like everyone else.  About a minute of standing there and I start to wonder, "Who has come in the room with rank, and why hasn't that person told everyone 'At Ease'?"  About that time a 1stlouie leans over toward me and whispers, "Sir, its for you."

I about died.
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Capt DL Spurlock, Commander
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mikeylikey
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« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2007, 03:06:33 PM »

 :D      It will eventually get old.  When I got commissioned years ago, I had to get used to soldiers older than my parents calling me Sir.  It was just a little weird at first.  When I became a Captain, it seems like people would actually seek me out to throw a salute or a "good morning" my way.  I think most people think you may not be anyone until you become a Captain.  Weird. 
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bosshawk
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« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2007, 06:13:15 AM »

Imagine my first assignment in the Army as a Second Lieutenant: in Germany, had 70 German nationals working for me, three senior NCOs and a bunch of lower EM: all of whom were older than me and 70 who spoke German around me all the time.  A real learning experience and one which I will always remember.  Didn't kill my career, but it came close on more than one occasion.

I've heard of grade creep: when I made First Lt, I was advised by one of my Captain friends that I could finally join the O Club.  Now, you tell us that it comes with Captain?
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Paul M. Reed
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mikeylikey
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« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2007, 01:58:38 PM »

^  Yes sir, grade creep is an amazing thing.  I have myself looked at a Lt and thought "how young is this guy, and who does he think he is coming in "my" o-club.  Same is true is CAP.  I am sure there are many people who figure a Lt has nothing to offer and has not been around the block yet. 
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davedove
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« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2007, 02:15:00 PM »

I have just the opposite reaction in CAP.  Having been around the Army for more than twenty years now, it seems really strange to me when a more "seasoned" individual (including myself) is wearing Lt bars.
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David W. Dove, Maj, CAP
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mikeylikey
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« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2007, 03:53:26 PM »

^ Also agreed.  What is even better is watching "kids" come into CAP as a Captain because they went through flight training.  Nothing better than a 21 year old Captain and a 55 year old 2nd Lt.  Oh wait......even better is that Captain thinking he or she is some hot stuff and trying to tell a Lt what to do.  I say save advanced grade to prior service only.  That however is a different discussion for a different area I guess.
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Pylon
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« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2007, 04:03:14 PM »

Oh wait......even better is that Captain thinking he or she is some hot stuff and trying to tell a Lt what to do.
 

Young CFI's, and former Spaatz cadets, both who rate promotions to Captain are generally categories of people I consider fairly mature.  I've never seen happen what you describe, and I know both young CFIs and former Spaatz cadets.

Don't blame the age inversion on the young people "cranking rank"  - it can happen in CAP to anybody, with or without special promotions, because people can join the senior program at 18 or 88.  It's not an issue that will be solved by eliminating advanced promotions for people bringing advanced skills to the organization.
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Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP
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MIKE
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« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2007, 04:30:38 PM »

^ I think it would help.  It's hypocritical of me, but thats what I think after being a senior for a while.
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Mike Johnston
SJFedor
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« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2007, 04:28:50 AM »

^ Also agreed.  What is even better is watching "kids" come into CAP as a Captain because they went through flight training.  Nothing better than a 21 year old Captain and a 55 year old 2nd Lt.  Oh wait......even better is that Captain thinking he or she is some hot stuff and trying to tell a Lt what to do.  I say save advanced grade to prior service only.  That however is a different discussion for a different area I guess.

Don't hate on the 21 year old Captain.  :P
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Steven Fedor, NREMT-P
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SAR-EMT1
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« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2007, 05:29:53 AM »

^ Also agreed.  What is even better is watching "kids" come into CAP as a Captain because they went through flight training.  Nothing better than a 21 year old Captain and a 55 year old 2nd Lt.  Oh wait......even better is that Captain thinking he or she is some hot stuff and trying to tell a Lt what to do.  I say save advanced grade to prior service only.  That however is a different discussion for a different area I guess.

Don't hate on the 21 year old Captain.  :P

It was so much easier to be a SFO wasnt it  ::)
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C. A. Edgar
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SJFedor
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« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2007, 05:40:44 AM »

You have no idea...
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Steven Fedor, NREMT-P
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flyerthom
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« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2007, 07:54:10 AM »

I found it to weird. I remember being a new CAP guy with a fresh set of 1st Lt bars. I was walking back to my car after Aviation Nation at Nellis AFB and all these "real air force guys" snapping salutes and me rather embarrassed, returning them. I remember thinking "ah but but you guys are real, I'm just a regular guy in a flight suit." My CO reminded me, we're really on the same team but I still felt like a double A baseball player in a pennant game.
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TC
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« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2007, 07:58:14 AM »

You have no idea...

I was a TFO.
I was known as "The old cadet"
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C. A. Edgar
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mikeylikey
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« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2007, 05:55:12 PM »

^  Hey you were an Officer.  Just one that had to sit at the kids table in the O-CLub
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What's up monkeys?
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« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2009, 04:36:11 AM »

I don't know if this relates to the situation but I will post it. When I joined CAP, I was also in AFJROTC at the time. I came in/and still am a Flight Officer. I went to a CAP event and all of the cadets saluted me and called me sir. In AFJROTC, I was not used to all of that and I saluted back and called the cadets sir's and maam's. They looked at me in the strangest way. Took me a little while to get used to it.

Also, my Group calls me a Super Cadet  ;D 
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JoeTomasone
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« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2009, 05:03:49 AM »

I'm currently working as a civilian contractor in Iraq, where the soldiers (pretty much regardless of rank and probably having been instructed to) address us as "sir".    One day (and I'll admit I was tired), I was chatting with a group of newcomers who were "sir'ing" me left and right.   We were walking and a Major comes the opposite direction.  You guessed it, I threw a salute out with a "Good afternoon, sir" almost in total sync with the entire group.    After he passed, one of the group says, "Um, sir, you know that you don't have to salute officers like we do.... Right?".   I wasn't sure which would be more embarrassing -- explaining that I'm a 1st Lt in CAP and it was out of habit, fatigue, and the mindset I was in with them all addressing me as "sir", or to play dumb and say, "Oh, really?    Umm..   Thanks..".     So I just basically said, "Yeah, but I would have felt left out.." with a grin.    Fortunately, they bought it.   :)

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NCRblues
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« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2009, 05:41:50 AM »

 ???When did we start saluting in Iraq? When I was there, it was a no salute zone in country...
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JoeTomasone
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« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2009, 08:45:03 AM »

Beats me, but outside of a few posted "no salute" zones, it's universal outdoors on this FOB -- as near as I can tell, anyway; I don't go looking to see who is and isn't, but I see it often enough for it to be dismissed as an aberration.


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Seabee219
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Capt
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2009, 09:09:12 AM »

I have to admit that it is strange now that I am a CAP officer that I get saluted, and call older men that served in WW2 by there first name.   I served in the Navy and was a enlisted grunt all my years in.  In my squadron, we have the respect of all the seniors with eathother.
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Cecil DP
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« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2009, 05:47:53 PM »

Beats me, but outside of a few posted "no salute" zones, it's universal outdoors on this FOB -- as near as I can tell, anyway; I don't go looking to see who is and isn't, but I see it often enough for it to be dismissed as an aberration.

In Vietnam we only saluted an Officer if we thought there was a sniper in the area.
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Michael P. McEleney
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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Tall Tales  |  Topic: Rank Confusion
 


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