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THE DAY HAS FINALLY COME

Started by sarmed1, November 04, 2025, 10:40:22 PM

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sarmed1

Capt.  Mark "K12" Kleibscheidel

GroundHawg

So happy to be rid of the black boots

PHall

Still need black boots if you wear the Blue BDU.

Shuman 14

Excellent!

Also a well written Change Letter, everything spelled out clearly, which patches where, and what can and cannot be worn, with pictures.

Other than having to get silver on blue rank sewn on a Patrol Cap, I'm good to go right now and didn't have to buy anything new.
Joseph J. Clune
Lieutenant Colonel, Military Police, US Army Reserve

and

Lieutenant Colonel, Civil Air Patrol

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 - 1998, 2000 - 2003, 2005 - Present     CAP: 2013 - 2014, 2021 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000      Active Army: 2003 - 2005                                       USCGAux: 2004 - Present

CAPJOE

Quote from: GroundHawg on November 06, 2025, 12:42:58 PMSo happy to be rid of the black boots

On one hand, because of looks, I'm glad we're going to the brown suede boots. On the other hand, ever since I was in the service, over 35 years ago, I've always taken pride in my spit shined boots. Most of the time it's been relaxing to spend an hour or two doing them.

NIN

Quote from: CAPJOE on November 07, 2025, 07:59:26 AMOn the other hand, ever since I was in the service, over 35 years ago, I've always taken pride in my spit shined boots. Most of the time it's been relaxing to spend an hour or two doing them.

I've worn black combat boots since 1981. I'm on my THIRD set of jumpboots since 1986 and my second set of flight boots since 1987. I wore the rough-out boots from 2007 to 2013. Amazing move.

I'll miss my jumpboots and flight boots, sure. But only a little.

Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
Wing Dude, National Bubba
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Fubar

Quote from: Shuman 14 on November 06, 2025, 07:47:15 PMAlso a well written Change Letter, everything spelled out clearly, which patches where, and what can and cannot be worn, with pictures.

You'd think so, but people are already arguing over the "AUX" patch which some people purchased when the OCP design first leaked and they're slightly different than the version Vanguard sells. The reg doesn't define what an "AUX" patch is, so some feel by default it has to be what Vanguard sells since NHQ told them what it needed to look like, others claim the patch meets the requirements as spelled out (albeit vaguely) in the regulation.

There is also quite a bit of disagreement of what has to be sewn versus velcro, confusion among parents since the pictures in the ICL didn't match what the national commander wore in her wink-wink announcement video, and some feel the flight suit variation is authorized since it's part of the AFI that the ICL references. Plus a patch war has once again broken out since not all unit patches have been reviewed by the heraldry nerds and since you can't wear OCPs without a unit patch and your unit patch has to have all the right colors not touching the wrong colors like two siblings fighting in the back of the sedan, parents are stuck trying figure out what they're supposed to do.

There is also a number of cases of squadron commanders banning the OCP uniforms from their units until everyone can get them because they don't want to have a mixture of ABUs and OCPs in formation. Commanders say the regs give them the authority to set the UOD, others say the regs say the UOD is the type (such as field) not the specific version of the uniform. Just wait until the new parents find out they're buying ABUs for their kids while the unit knows full well everyone will be switching in a month or two.

So you know, it's a regular Tuesday in the Civil Air Patrol.

biomed441

Quote from: Fubar on November 12, 2025, 08:31:09 AMPlus a patch war has once again broken out since not all unit patches have been reviewed by the heraldry nerds and since you can't wear OCPs without a unit patch and your unit patch has to have all the right colors not touching the wrong colors like two siblings fighting in the back of the sedan, parents are stuck trying figure out what they're supposed to do.


The patch thing is all sorts of weird too. 110-3 states units can continue to use non-compliant patches until they run out of stock.... so as far as OCPs go, which says the patches must be 110-3 compliant... which part of 110-3 do they need to comply with.  The design criteria, or can the old stock be used? 

Also, I know of a wing that basically redesigned all of their unit patches to be 110-3 compliant, but roughly 75% of the "approved" patches still aren't compliant, but wing approved them soooo how does that work when someone calls them out for wearing a "non-compliant approved" patch on the OCPs... Thought that's not so much an OCP problem as a wing not understanding the heraldry regs.

Quote from: Fubar on November 12, 2025, 08:31:09 AMThere is also a number of cases of squadron commanders banning the OCP uniforms from their units until everyone can get them because they don't want to have a mixture of ABUs and OCPs in formation. Commanders say the regs give them the authority to set the UOD, others say the regs say the UOD is the type (such as field) not the specific version of the uniform. Just wait until the new parents find out they're buying ABUs for their kids while the unit knows full well everyone will be switching in a month or two.


My unit is doing that as well to some degree. No one can wear the OCP until a class on how to wear them is provided, though there's no schedule as to when that class will take place.  There has been precedence set to not side with the commanders who are banning wear of the OCPs though.  There was an instance, I cant remember if it was a wing hosted course or a conference where someone was told that if they didn't wear a specific UOD to the activity they could not participate.  I think it was region or National that found out and said if the member shows up in a CAP uniform, they can participate regardless of the UOD so long as it doesn't present a safety issue for the activity.   So commanders banning the wear of an authorized uniform may not fly for long.

Its all a mess... as is every uniform transition. 

NIN

Quote from: biomed441 on November 12, 2025, 03:44:04 PMThere was an instance, I cant remember if it was a wing hosted course or a conference where someone was told that if they didn't wear a specific UOD to the activity they could not participate.  I think it was region or National that found out and said if the member shows up in a CAP uniform, they can participate regardless of the UOD so long as it doesn't present a safety issue for the activity.   So commanders banning the wear of an authorized uniform may not fly for long.

Its all a mess... as is every uniform transition. 

Amen to that last part.  Its just growing pains. I went thru the transition to epaulet blues shirts, then fatigues to BDUs (and all the subsequent tuneups to the original guidance) then BDU to ABU (and the couple adjustments there) and now ABU to OCP.  In every instance of a change, someone advised their commander that the loss of uniformity was going to cause:
 
  • a huge hit to morale;
  • a huge hit to operational capability;
  • a complete lack of "standards" leading to a breakdown in unit cohesion & discipline;
  • a loss of credibility;
  • dogs and cats to live together, leading to mass hysteria.
or any combination of the above.

At the end of the day, none of those things happened. Ever.

"This too shall pass." LOL.

I will say, commanders have the inherent ability to set the Uniform of the Day (or for the event, or whatever).

CAPR 39-1, para 1.2.5.3 "[...]The CAP/CC and other commanders may specify the wear of a particular uniform type for the purpose of achieving a uniform appearance at squadron, group, wing, region, and national functions. [...]"

National supposedly saying to a wing "if a member comes in uniform, they can participate regardless" sounds incredibly apocryphal. You go to the National Conference and they specify what uniforms may be worn for the event.  For example, there is usually a "no utility uniforms or flight suits" prohibition.  Its not the Wild, Wild West there.

I have been to conferences where a gaggle of c/Amn show up in ABUs and I was told "They don't have blues yet." Well, OK, but "appropriate attire," for the gravity and dignity of the activity is still a thing, so show up in a collared shirt and khakis or something.

You wouldn't show up to your sister's wedding in a pair of grubby jeans and a hoodie with the excuse "I don't have a suit yet," right?




Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
Wing Dude, National Bubba
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.