future CAP OCP uniform: blue name tapes w/ camo pattern rank?

[HandsomeWalt_USMC]

I don't know why the image isn't appearing

It's because the image is password protected on the forum you are trying to link to.

Might be better if you download the image, save it and re-post it here.

Can I upload pictures here? I don't use social media so I can't do the image link thing. I'm a luddite.😁

[skymaster]

Here is a higher resolution version of the image being discussed.

[Shuman 14]

Okay, so if this is legitimate, trust but verify, I like it for the most part. Probably no word on boot color? Hat rank, sew-on or pin-on insignia? I assume white on blue name tape on hat back?

Also, what is the patch above the Wing Patch on the left sleeve?

Quick Edit, Disregard the patch question, I just read the small print, It's the "USAF AUX" patch; which is a fair and acceptable compromise   by the USAF to allow us to wear the uniform. As soon as that patch is made available, I'll be ready to put it on. That's the great thing about Velcro, so easy to switch between Service uniforms.

[PHall]

Quick Edit, Disregard the patch question, I just read the small print, It's the "USAF AUX" patch; which is a fair and acceptable compromise   by the USAF to allow us to wear the uniform. As soon as that patch is made available, I'll be ready to put it on. That's the great thing about Velcro, so easy to switch between Service uniforms.

I thought that you wear only the Polo because it's the only CAP uniform you need.

[biomed441]

This was posted by a CAP-USAF DAF Civilian on another forum today with the caption "My CAP opposite numbers got approved for OCP uniform this week! (kind of aviation related)" BIG if true!



Edit: I don't know why the image isn't appearing but here is a link to the thread: https://www.airwarriors.com/community/threads/random-griz-aviation-musings.46266/page-281#post-1130328

VERY interesting.  Looking at the post made by said CAP/USAF Civilian they also mentioned OD Green shirt and coyote boots.  I'm cautiously optimistic on that. Hope said source is credible. the USAF AUX identifier patch is also interesting.  That would identify us quicker than any other method we've used. 

[Shuman 14]

I thought that you wear only the Polo because it's the only CAP uniform you need.

I will simply peel the cammo NAME and US ARMY tapes, rank and unit patch off my current Army uniform and take my white on blue tapes and blank rank square from my Black CAP Fleece and my wing patch from my blue flight jacket and apply them when I go to the field in CAP. I don't need to buy anything. 

And, yes, for the most part, the polo suits me just fine, but I might just wear OCPs, but I'm not going to buy ABUs, ever, and right now I have no need for BBDUs. I am saving up for a blue flightsuit, I would like to try being Air Crew someday, time permitting.

[PHall]

I thought that you wear only the Polo because it's the only CAP uniform you need.

I will simply peel the cammo NAME and US ARMY tapes, rank and unit patch off my current Army uniform and take my white on blue tapes and blank rank square from my Black CAP Fleece and my wing patch from my blue flight jacket and apply them when I go to the field in CAP. I don't need to buy anything. 

And, yes, for the most part, the polo suits me just fine, but I might just wear OCPs, but I'm not going to buy ABUs, ever, and right now I have no need for BBDUs. I am saving up for a blue flightsuit, I would like to try being Air Crew someday, time permitting.

Many wings allow you to fly in a polo.

[Shuman 14]

Many wings allow you to fly in a polo.

That's true but if I'm flying with a Wing that doesn't, I want to be prepared.

My goal is to attend the Scanner and Photographer Course at NESA, but for the last three years it's been right in the middle of my Army Reserve Annual Training, so I haven't been able to attend. I know it's needed for the graduation ceremony at the very least.

[SierraOneThree]

There are wings that force you to wear the bag while flying? That's....silly.

The image is legitimate, and one of a very in-depth series that were submitted to the NUC last week. It's still only draft, and at least one change has been made to patches since that image was created last week.

Brown boots are the most likely final result we are going with. The guy who posted the image on that forum said "OD green undershirt" when he meant "Tan 499" like Army and AF wear.

Biggest hold-up recently has been distinctiveness, which we think we've finally figured out. Most likely thing we're going with is a slight change to rank insignia for OCPs to be more akin to the CGAUX (though not exactly the same), plus the Auxiliary identifier (exact text still TBD) on the left shoulder.

We who have been working on it are hoping this will be made official sooner than later, and that seems to be what's about to happen given the ABU situation. However, this is still draft pending Gen Aye's signature, so don't spend hundreds on a new uniform til it's made official.

[Shuman 14]

"Tan 499"

AKA Coyote Brown. Yes, I know that's not the official nomenclature, but "Coyote" is what nearly everyone calls it.

Truth be told, I have twenty-year-old Brown t-shirts from the BDUs that are still service-able, and faded enough to pass for Coyote, and I wear them all the time, and no one has ever commented on them.

 Happy to hear Coyote boots too, many of us will be spending next to nothing to transition to this uniform.

Also, rank patch with "CAP" embroidered under the insignia in white, or on the insignia itself in Red or Blue, is again a very reasonable compromise to allow us to wear this uniform.

[HandsomeWalt_USMC]

Changing insignia is silly. Standard rank insignia on blue cloth was perfectly acceptable with ABU, BDU, FDU, etc. Why is it not enough now?

I can understand the USAF AUX identifier and the blue tapes, I understand the CAP on the goretex tab when there's no additional distinctive devices. Why on earth do we suddenly need more distinctive rank insignia on top of the blue tapes, full color patches and the identifier patch?

[skymaster]

Changing insignia is silly. Standard rank insignia on blue cloth was perfectly acceptable with ABU, BDU, FDU, etc. Why is it not enough now?

I can understand the USAF AUX identifier and the blue tapes, I understand the CAP on the goretex tab when there's no additional distinctive devices. Why on earth do we suddenly need more distinctive rank insignia on top of the blue tapes, full color patches and the identifier patch?

Per a CAP-USAF Liaison Officer that I work with when wearing my "other" uniform, the Air Force didn't have a problem with the CAP insignia as currently authorized to be used on the new OCP uniform. It was the actually the Space Force that had some concerns. As some of you that have seen their OCP uniform, they have a blue grade insignia (similar to the old AF Blue) and name/branch tape lettering that is nothing like the full color grade insignia on dark blue that CAP wears. However, the Space Force has a new spaceflight duty uniform in development similar to what NASA astronauts have worn in the past, and to go along with all the full color patches on that, they have tentative plans to adopt special full color grade insignia for that uniform as well. Full color on a "dark space blue" background is one of the color variations that is under consideration by the Space Force for that particular duty uniform.

For what it is worth, my source said the Air Force leadership did a bit of pushing back on the Space Force about their Auxiliary already having been previously authorized for this color insignia BEFORE the Space Force contractors looked at what was available off-the-shelf already, so there apparently has been some discussion going on between the Air Force and the Space Force on this subject, and some legislators who are also CAP members have even entered the same discussion. But the Air Force had no problem with our current insignia. It was mainly the Space Force just raising some concerns because they would like to use something nearly identical for some of their officers for one uniform variant that only a few of their officers would wear. 

[biomed441]

Changing insignia is silly. Standard rank insignia on blue cloth was perfectly acceptable with ABU, BDU, FDU, etc. Why is it not enough now?

I can understand the USAF AUX identifier and the blue tapes, I understand the CAP on the goretex tab when there's no additional distinctive devices. Why on earth do we suddenly need more distinctive rank insignia on top of the blue tapes, full color patches and the identifier patch?

Per a CAP-USAF Liaison Officer that I work with when wearing my "other" uniform, the Air Force didn't have a problem with the CAP insignia as currently authorized to be used on the new OCP uniform. It was the actually the Space Force that had some concerns. As some of you that have seen their OCP uniform, they have a blue grade insignia (similar to the old AF Blue) and name/branch tape lettering that is nothing like the full color grade insignia on dark blue that CAP wears. However, the Space Force has a new spaceflight duty uniform in development similar to what NASA astronauts have worn in the past, and to go along with all the full color patches on that, they have tentative plans to adopt special full color grade insignia for that uniform as well. Full color on a "dark space blue" background is one of the color variations that is under consideration by the Space Force for that particular duty uniform.

For what it is worth, my source said the Air Force leadership did a bit of pushing back on the Space Force about their Auxiliary already having been previously authorized for this color insignia BEFORE the Space Force contractors looked at what was available off-the-shelf already, so there apparently has been some discussion going on between the Air Force and the Space Force on this subject, and some legislators who are also CAP members have even entered the same discussion. But the Air Force had no problem with our current insignia. It was mainly the Space Force just raising some concerns because they would like to use something nearly identical for some of their officers for one uniform variant that only a few of their officers would wear. 

If that is the case, then good on the AF for pushing back.  The OCP as depicted in the image above is more than sufficient for distinctiveness in my opinion.  If we cannot be distinguished with that setup, I don't think anything would suffice at that point short of not wearing the uniform at all.  Implication from the space force concern would put the entire BBDU uniform in question too would it not? It is nearly identical to the US Coast Guard and they don't seem to be too worried about it, so I think USSF is splitting hairs here. 

[HandsomeWalt_USMC]

It strikes me as petulant and childish. "WE'RE A REAL SERVICE TOO! YOU CANT DO THAT, YOU'LL LOOK TOO MUCH LIKE US!"

I'm happy to hear USAF pushed back on it.

[PHall]

Space Force needs to change their officer grade insignia, they might be confused with CAP!
I suggest the pips used on Star Trek The Next Generation.

[biomed441]

Or we let the Space force win, they can have the dark blue with full color grade. We go to OCP pattern with full color grade, with white or silver thread for the tapes, full color patches and that USAF AUX left shoulder patch.  STILL plenty distinctive.  Nah, the image as posted looks good and checks the distinctive box. 

On the USAF/AUX identifier or whatever it will end up being;  it seems there are a few people in this thread now with some insider knowledge.  Curious how the Command Badge will work.  Currently serving commanders in USAF wear the badge as per usual on OCPs above the name tape.  Graduated commanders from what I've seen wear it on their left sleeve where we would be placing that identifier badge.  Someone with more knowledge feel free to correct me on that. I think wear for graduated commanders is optional for USAF Personnel. Its currently mandatory for wear on the ABU. Curious how CAP will navigate that one, if it will become an option item or no longer authorized for wear by graduated CC's due to the identifier tag location? 

[Shuman 14]

Changing insignia is silly. Standard rank insignia on blue cloth was perfectly acceptable with ABU, BDU, FDU, etc. Why is it not enough now?

I can understand the USAF AUX identifier and the blue tapes, I understand the CAP on the goretex tab when there's no additional distinctive devices. Why on earth do we suddenly need more distinctive rank insignia on top of the blue tapes, full color patches and the identifier patch?

For the most part I agree but let me muddy the waters a little bit.

Here is a picture of the USCG Auxiliary Office Insignia:



For the most part it mirrors USCG Rank but on coat sleeves and shoulder boards it is SILVER whereas USCG is GOLD and the addition of Auxiliary "A" to the USCG Sheild in Blue for elected Office and Red for appointed Office.

When pin-on or embroidered Office insignia is used (i.e. working uniforms, trench coats, ball caps, etc.) it is the same as USCG Rank but with the addition of a blue or red "A".

I would submit to you, that current USAF Rank insignia is large/wide enough to hold an enameled "CAP" in Red, Blue or Grey on it, vertically on Lieutenants bars and horizontally on all other rank insignia.

CAP NCO Rank already has "CAP" on it. So, no issues there.

If we were to adopt adding "CAP" to our insignia, we could make the case to the USAF to do away with the grey epaulet slides, at least on the Service Coat and trench coat, and maybe get them to allow a blue slide with embroidered "CAP" over Rank Insignia on the shirts and sweaters.

[NIN]

Every time we get into this dicussion, its "But the USCG Aux does ... this!"

We're not the USCG Aux. We don't have auxiliary status at all times like the USCG Aux does.

There's not a burning need to layer on more insignia, create different pieces of insignia, etc, just to "look more like these other guys."  The USCG Aux is one organization with one parent service, we are another with a different parent service and a different legal relationship to them.

I swear you guys are just trying to increase the SKU count at Vanguard. Cut it out.

[biomed441]

I see where Joe is going with this, though I don't completely think we need a rank change.  Adding CAP along with it for blues i wouldn't mind.  After all before we got hit with berry boards we were wearing hard rank and blue slides just like the USAF just with CAP cutouts.  Id take it a step further and change the sleeve braid to another color. Not silver or Gold. Maybe a lighter blue or could do something similar to the army officer braid but silver with a red stripe in it. 

OCPs I really don't think would need to change at all. Keep as is pictured above.  All of it with exception of the the new identifier patch are currently in production, and used across other uniforms.  Changing the rank insignia would require it to get changed on ALL other uniforms. That seems excessive just to try and make the USSF happy so again getting back on topic a bit, glad the AF appears to be pushing back on that.

Overall glad to see the move over happening.  May be an initial up front cost to some members, a cost savings for others and I think long term is going to save members money especially as OCP surplus grows.

[SierraOneThree]

I'll be honest with you all, the reason for the new insignia is moot because they're likely on the way. That being said, and as someone who is REALLY picky about uniforms, they're not bad at all. They're just the Goretex ranks made square, at least in their current draft.

That said, as far as Space Force pushing back on CAP ranks, that is.....not what was told to us when we were given the task to create the insignia.