March 04, 2021, 04:39:09 pm

Senior Safety Rating

Started by swodog, February 08, 2021, 05:33:43 pm

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swodog

So I get that IS-300/400 is required however, this class (in my neck of the woods) isn't being taught nor is it available online.  It's the last item I have to finish MSO and my senior rating.
My Wing safety guy said that national said "no" to any covid type waiver, etc.
So basically I'm on hold for MSO, Senior Safety and Level III.

Kinda crappy they expect us to do so much for them but don't really want to do much for us when we need it.

Eclipse

Have you made any connections with local EMA or LEA / FDs?  The majority of this training
has gone virtual over the past year, but it's not always advertised outside of the
"community".

Also, in case you do find a class that wants to charge you, CAP falls into the national
ES framework, so there should be no charge, with costs being covered by grants, etc. These classes
can be advertised as $250+ per session.

Depending on your situation, you might be able to host one yourself (though "hosting" these days
is kind subjective).  It used to be finding a place to put the donuts and sign-in sheet was the issue,
not so much anymore.



swodog

I have tried MEMSA, TEMA, AR Division of Emergency Management, Google and of course FEMA.  Nada, everyone is still under Covid rules.  If you have an online option you see please paste the link here.

swodog

Here is what FEMA says:


Eclipse

Quote from: swodog on February 08, 2021, 05:44:39 pmHere is what FEMA says:

Maybe that's an old answer?  A lot has changed and been waivered the last year.

I can tell you for a fact that ICS 300 & 400 has been happening virtual all over
both within and outside of CAP.



swodog

Thanks I'll see if Wing will pay for it.  If not back to square one.

FYI, I contacted AR EMA, they are filled on all classes for now.

CAP9907

NER just held a virtual -300 this past weekend. Ck NER.cap.gov as they hold them a couple of times a year.

~9907
21 yrs of service

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swodog

That's great, if anyone actually hears of a region holding that training please let me know.

Eclipse

Quote from: swodog on February 08, 2021, 06:02:37 pmThanks I'll see if Wing will pay for it.  If not back to square one.

FYI, I contacted AR EMA, they are filled on all classes for now.

To be clear, it's not "Wing" paying for it, the classes should be covered by
the same grants as any other LEO, EMA, or FD in the framework. 

Mileage is going to vary by provider, but CAP, per se, should not have to pay for the classes.



swodog

Quote from: Eclipse on February 08, 2021, 07:01:34 pm
Quote from: swodog on February 08, 2021, 06:02:37 pmThanks I'll see if Wing will pay for it.  If not back to square one.

FYI, I contacted AR EMA, they are filled on all classes for now.

To be clear, it's not "Wing" paying for it, the classes should be covered by
the same grants as any other LEO, EMA, or FD in the framework. 

Mileage is going to vary by provider, but CAP, per se, should not have to pay for the classes.
Frankly speaking neither should I.

Spam

I tried to enroll in any available online IS400, but was told by the NHQ staff admin that I could not (I'm SER - couldn't enroll in NER, for example). He advised me to forward my request through my Wing to SER (which I did, and which I'm sure is getting all the due attention it deserves).

So, good luck. Tell me if they take you, I tried. One of the last things I need to get my IC rating back.

V/r
Spam

swodog

Quote from: Spam on February 08, 2021, 08:51:36 pmI tried to enroll in any available online IS400, but was told by the NHQ staff admin that I could not (I'm SER - couldn't enroll in NER, for example). He advised me to forward my request through my Wing to SER (which I did, and which I'm sure is getting all the due attention it deserves).

So, good luck. Tell me if they take you, I tried. One of the last things I need to get my IC rating back.

V/r
Spam
I'm SE region also, according to my CO, SER said no to any type of waiver.
I hate to say it, but this is really souring me on CAP.  I've been around 3 years or so and given my time freely and gladly to the cause.  But is this a requirement that's even necessary for Senior? Or even Master?  I'd like to hear from someone who has actually shown up, they know you've completed this training and placed you in a position necessary to actually use the knowledge that is taught.
IS-300 defined: is designed for those emergency response personnel who would function in a Command or General Staff position during a large, complex incident or event or personnel who are or would likely be part of a local or regional Incident Management Team during a major incident, whether single agency, multiagency or Unified Command.
IS-400 defined: provides training and resources for responders who require advanced application of the ICS by providing overall incident management skills rather than tactical expertise.
Has anyone here shown up in a CAP role and functioned on a FEMA command during a large complex incident?  I don't mean I showed up for Hurricane X and provide ground or air support, I'm talking about showing up as CAP and been placed in a position of a large incident management position.
So why place such a large burden for this qualification. Certainly there's another experience vice taking these courses that would provide value to CAP.

Professor Safety & Emergency Services

Quote from: swodog on February 09, 2021, 01:50:11 pm
Quote from: Spam on February 08, 2021, 08:51:36 pmI tried to enroll in any available online IS400, but was told by the NHQ staff admin that I could not (I'm SER - couldn't enroll in NER, for example). He advised me to forward my request through my Wing to SER (which I did, and which I'm sure is getting all the due attention it deserves).

So, good luck. Tell me if they take you, I tried. One of the last things I need to get my IC rating back.

V/r
Spam
I'm SE region also, according to my CO, SER said no to any type of waiver.
I hate to say it, but this is really souring me on CAP.  I've been around 3 years or so and given my time freely and gladly to the cause.  But is this a requirement that's even necessary for Senior? Or even Master?  I'd like to hear from someone who has actually shown up, they know you've completed this training and placed you in a position necessary to actually use the knowledge that is taught.
IS-300 defined: is designed for those emergency response personnel who would function in a Command or General Staff position during a large, complex incident or event or personnel who are or would likely be part of a local or regional Incident Management Team during a major incident, whether single agency, multiagency or Unified Command.
IS-400 defined: provides training and resources for responders who require advanced application of the ICS by providing overall incident management skills rather than tactical expertise.
Has anyone here shown up in a CAP role and functioned on a FEMA command during a large complex incident?  I don't mean I showed up for Hurricane X and provide ground or air support, I'm talking about showing up as CAP and been placed in a position of a large incident management position.
So why place such a large burden for this qualification. Certainly there's another experience vice taking these courses that would provide value to CAP.

It is highly unlikely that a member of CAP acting in that capacity would ever be put into a role such as Incident Commander unless they work for that agency. IE: They work for the EOC or Agency and take on that role as part of the Full-Time job. Those in the ICS world within CAP are there strictly for operations run by CAP and within their scope. I don't know of any MOU's or MOA's that would establish or allow a CAP trained member to be an IC outside of the organization.

IMHO the intent of the CAP ICS300/ICS400 training is strictly a knowledge-based approach when we support the Incident Command structure as part of the larger response run by an actual agency such as FEMA or the home state EOC. IMO CAP should allow an ICS300/ICS400 internal training whether web-based or in-person for CAP purposes only as we are not allowed to augment actual Incidents beyond CAP.

I teach ICS classes at the undergrad level and have never read of an outside organization being placed as the primary IC for an actual response whether CAP or another. It is still a good program for CAP members to be familiar with.
S.O.S.

Spam

Quote from: swodog on February 09, 2021, 01:50:11 pmHas anyone here shown up in a CAP role and functioned on a FEMA command during a large complex incident?  I don't mean I showed up for Hurricane X and provide ground or air support, I'm talking about showing up as CAP and been placed in a position of a large incident management position.
So why place such a large burden for this qualification. Certainly there's another experience vice taking these courses that would provide value to CAP.

Actually yes, I've done this several times on floods, blizzards, etc. For example, I served as an EMA shift supervisor (in a CAP uniform!) for multiple shifts over a 40 day Presidentially declared DR emergency, including scheduling briefing launching and debriefing morning CAP recon flights at first light, and then providing resulting briefings to FEMA and state EMA officials, and then working coordination tasks for field units based on the provided intel.  So, yes, the content of -300 and -400 are indeed tracking with expectations for the IC KSAs and responsibilities.

As to whether that maps or matches appropriately to a Senior level Safety rating, I am not qualified in the Safety specialty track and cannot comment. (You didnt expect THAT in CapTalk, did you - grin).

As to the online course availability, I am holding out hope and I'll go take another stab at trying to sign up for an online session somewhere, somewhen.  Good luck and hope to see you in one.

R/s
Spam

Crashaxe

I needed to get ICS-300 and ICS-400 done this fall for the same reason you do. I found a virtual 300 class in my state, but couldn't find a virtual 400 class. I started searching various state's Emergency Management websites, and found a 400 class in both North Dakota and Oregon. Both were free. I ended up doing the class through North Dakota.

My advice would be to start searching each state until you find one that has a class available that will fit your calendar. There are 50 states, and a lot of them if not most are offering multiple dates. State offered classes are generally free, and they don't generally care where you are from. You just have to register with the state to sign up for the classes, and possibly provide your IS-100, 200, 700, and 800 certs to prove you have done the prerequisites for ICS-300, and your ICS-300 cert also for your ICS-400 class since ICS-300 is a prerequisite for 400.

Since they are virtual classes, it doesn't matter how far away the state is from you, other than time zone differences for class starting and ending times. I invested about 30 minutes time to find my ICS-400 class.