March 09, 2021, 07:32:08 am

CAPP 40-7: Mentoring

Started by Jester, January 05, 2021, 01:14:51 am

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Jester

Interesting that a new national initiative to address an issue commonly identified as a problem for SMs hasn't gotten a single reply.  CAPTalk really has been quiet lately.

etodd

Quote from: Jester on January 10, 2021, 01:24:56 amInteresting that a new national initiative to address an issue commonly identified as a problem for SMs hasn't gotten a single reply.  CAPTalk really has been quiet lately.

"Good" mentoring is a grass roots deal, and I'm not sure how much you can do as a national initiative(?) But I'm probably wrong. LOL

It takes a special person to mentor. And it takes a good relationships. Some will gel, others might be oil and water. Looks like some of this is mentioned in the article linked. But I guess my point is that every squadron may not have people who enjoy being a mentor, have the time to be a mentor, and who have the personality the mentee needs.

I have some great mentors in my squadron that really helped me get through ratings, while I self-studied so much of it. Instead of waiting months for Wing to setup a training date for X.  Self study and having mentors on speed dial was great.

Squadrons vary so widely .... 
"Don't try to explain it, just bow your head
Breathe in, breathe out, move on ..."

Jester

Quote from: etodd on January 10, 2021, 04:02:38 am
Quote from: Jester on January 10, 2021, 01:24:56 amInteresting that a new national initiative to address an issue commonly identified as a problem for SMs hasn't gotten a single reply.  CAPTalk really has been quiet lately.

"Good" mentoring is a grass roots deal, and I'm not sure how much you can do as a national initiative(?) But I'm probably wrong. LOL

It takes a special person to mentor. And it takes a good relationships. Some will gel, others might be oil and water. Looks like some of this is mentioned in the article linked. But I guess my point is that every squadron may not have people who enjoy being a mentor, have the time to be a mentor, and who have the personality the mentee needs.

I have some great mentors in my squadron that really helped me get through ratings, while I self-studied so much of it. Instead of waiting months for Wing to setup a training date for X.  Self study and having mentors on speed dial was great.

Squadrons vary so widely ....


That's the point of the program. Not every squadron has mentors, less have mentors that are actually good, and not every specialty area has mentors available locally.

The national mentoring program will have a pool of mentors, and prospective mentees can apply to be matched. The applications for both are detailed to assist the matcher.

Information requested includes mentoring style, preferred method/frequency of contact, types of ratings, etc.

Holding Pattern

Quote from: Jester on January 10, 2021, 01:24:56 amInteresting that a new national initiative to address an issue commonly identified as a problem for SMs hasn't gotten a single reply.  CAPTalk really has been quiet lately.

That's because the problem hasn't been with the mentor pamphlets, nor does this pamphlet address in a directive fashion any of the issues with our mentoring program.

Get back to me when we have a directive publication.

RiverAux

January 10, 2021, 03:13:22 pm #5 Last Edit: January 10, 2021, 03:18:57 pm by RiverAux
What sort of directives would you favor?

I'm a little doubtful about how a general national level mentoring program would be helpful for a new member that doesn't yet understand what positions are filled in their unit or who fills them.  I could see some value in having mentors available throughout the country to help with the various PD tracks. 

Eclipse

January 10, 2021, 06:27:05 pm #6 Last Edit: January 10, 2021, 09:48:43 pm by Eclipse
Assigning a mentor has been a required component of applying for membership for ages,
yet despite the fact that a CC had to certify one has been assigned, a goodly number of CC's
aren't even aware of this space on the application.

A "new" set of toner consuming verbiage isn't going to change that, and creating national "mentors"
is actually kinda funny - these will be no more (or less) then simple instructors.

Mentoring is a personal relationship that involves trust, contact, and shared experience, not an email conversation
and some video calls.

What this will probably do is create another situation where people propagate that the only people
who can be mentors are those in the approved pool, which, true or not, will make it harder to get them assigned.

For the record, this is already coming to fruition with regards to PD instructors.



Jester

Now that mentoring a member through Level 1 is a required task for completing Level 3, you should see a lot more people wanting to help out.  While people seeking to help others for their own progression isn't really a perfect-world motivation, it is what it is.  CAP should get new members with at least a modicum of help in the onboarding process while existing members get a little progression and experience they wouldn't have gotten otherwise. 

I think the resources, techniques, etc in the pamphlet can at least give those who find themselves in the mentor seat for the first time some guidance, while also giving those in the mentee seat a little more visibility on what their expected contribution to the relationship is.

Meanwhile, the whole virtual thing has been coming for a while and has been accelerated over the last year.  I think having a national-level resource helps those in smaller, less-experienced units by giving access to the same level of knowledge everyone else has.

Is it ideal?  No.  Is it better than what we have now?  Probably.

Eclipse

Quote from: Jester on January 10, 2021, 10:39:52 pmNow that mentoring a member through Level 1 is a required task for completing Level 3, you should see a lot more people wanting to help out.

"Hey Cap, I'm up for Level 3, can you sign off?"

"Did you mentor a new member?"

"Um, what?...yeah...'member I helped that one guy...what was his name...heavyset dude with a mustache
and glasses...you know, the one who quit after like 2 months a couple years ago."

"Sure, yeah, great, whatever...congrats on Level III".

Rinse.

Repeat.

Now, more then ever, retention should be the #1 emphasis item for every commander at every level -
actively polling the entirety of the membership to see what they need to work on for progression,
with higher HQ requiring reports and action (and this would include culling empty shirts which
are going to make things even harder in the coming years).

A document launched into the either with pinwheel wishes that the culture of the organizaiton
will change, without positive pressure, from a GOB club to a collaborative, inclusive organization,
isn't going to change anything.

RiverAux, to your question on the other thread, this is one of those things.



etodd

Quote from: Eclipse on January 10, 2021, 06:27:05 pmMentoring is a personal relationship that involves trust, contact, and shared experience, not an email conversation and some video calls.


Worth repeating. ^^^  The mentors I talked of above, were not 'assigned' to me. Not part of a 'program'. And the people I have mentored/helped, were never on paper.

For example, I stood up at a meeting and said .... "Hey everyone, I'm a SET for Airborne Photography. If anyone is interested in working on it, and needs help with the task guide, let me know and we'll phone, meet, lunch, or whatever and go over stuff, and work with the gear."

^^^ My idea of mentoring. Friends helping friends. No recordkeeping. No badges, no certs, just people helping people. :)
"Don't try to explain it, just bow your head
Breathe in, breathe out, move on ..."

Jester

So basically we've resorted to luck and hope as a strategy.  Check, got it.

Jester

Quote from: Eclipse on January 11, 2021, 12:10:04 am
Quote from: Jester on January 10, 2021, 10:39:52 pmNow that mentoring a member through Level 1 is a required task for completing Level 3, you should see a lot more people wanting to help out.

"Hey Cap, I'm up for Level 3, can you sign off?"

"Did you mentor a new member?"

"Um, what?...yeah...'member I helped that one guy...what was his name...heavyset dude with a mustache
and glasses...you know, the one who quit after like 2 months a couple years ago."

"Sure, yeah, great, whatever...congrats on Level III".

Rinse.

Repeat.

Now, more then ever, retention should be the #1 emphasis item for every commander at every level -
actively polling the entirety of the membership to see what they need to work on for progression,
with higher HQ requiring reports and action (and this would include culling empty shirts which
are going to make things even harder in the coming years).

A document launched into the either with pinwheel wishes that the culture of the organizaiton
will change, without positive pressure, from a GOB club to a collaborative, inclusive organization,
isn't going to change anything.

RiverAux, to your question on the other thread, this is one of those things.

Ok, how is that different than pencil-whipping anything else?  Failure/refusal to uphold standards is a leadership issue regardless of the subject.

I would hope that we won't resort to a defeatist attitude when it comes to building skillsets.  "well, might as well not bother.  We can't trust them not to cheat anyway" is mind-boggling to me. 

I agree with retention being the top priority.  One of the ways you retain someone is to give them some kind of investment into the organization, and making them help out new folks is as good a way as any.  Maybe they'll even realize they like it, who knows.

I don't really like the way CAP has reduced the term "mentor" into a synonym for "checklist checker-offer" but at least this new CAPP steps outside of that. 

Eclipse

Quote from: Jester on January 11, 2021, 03:31:16 amOk, how is that different than pencil-whipping anything else?  Failure/refusal to uphold standards is a leadership issue regardless of the subject.

It's not, and agreed.




Holding Pattern

Quote from: Jester on January 15, 2021, 04:22:05 amUPDATE: Program is live.

https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/members/ed-training/mentoring

And clearly no one bothered to come up with a basic plan to utilize available data so we have to ask a stack of questions to our membership rather than utilize a form in e-services that can pull 95% of the data asked simply by virtue of being logged in.

Holding Pattern

Questions 1-9,11,15,22,23: All in e-Services or a CAPWATCH data pull with a CAPID.

etodd

QuoteFrom the FAQ page:

Will this replace local mentors?
No.

OK. Perfect. Status quo. I can keep mentoring local members one to one, as ops arise. I was afraid it was going to change things.
"Don't try to explain it, just bow your head
Breathe in, breathe out, move on ..."

Jester

Quote from: etodd on January 16, 2021, 02:25:08 am
QuoteFrom the FAQ page:

Will this replace local mentors?
No.

OK. Perfect. Status quo. I can keep mentoring local members one to one, as ops arise. I was afraid it was going to change things.

Hopefully the CAPP makes you a more effective mentor.  It works independent of the program.

I went ahead and registered as a mentor.  We don't do enough for seniors in this organization and if I can help someone not fortunate enough to have the right person available for them locally, then that's my contribution.

Jester

Quote from: Holding Pattern on January 15, 2021, 08:53:51 pm
Quote from: Jester on January 15, 2021, 04:22:05 amUPDATE: Program is live.

https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/members/ed-training/mentoring

And clearly no one bothered to come up with a basic plan to utilize available data so we have to ask a stack of questions to our membership rather than utilize a form in e-services that can pull 95% of the data asked simply by virtue of being logged in.

You mean like specialty track info, stuff like that?  I guess they can easily pull that kind of data but it doesn't do a lot of good to mass-blast out to every master-rated CP guy that they can now be mentors.  Undoubtedly some would jump at that chance who earned their master rating in the 80s, weren't that great then and aren't up to speed now and refuse to do so (I know full well these folks exist). 

If someone cares enough to spend 5 minutes filling out a form that's at least a positive indicator that they will put some effort in, and the form asks for other things that aren't available in eServices like availability hours, communication styles, etc. 

They also will get exposed to initial training and continuing education they wouldn't otherwise get.  Can you be a mentor without it?  Yeah.  Should that stop you from seeking self-improvement and to be a better resource for others.  Nope.

TheSkyHornet

While I agree with some of the commentary here, I want to proceed with caution in assuming that everything is being "pencil-whipped" for the sake of expediting sign-offs or in some practice of malice.

In many cases, the mentor is no more an expert on the subject matter than the protégé.

It's not uncommon for a unit's PDO/ETO to lack in clear understanding of the professional development program, especially after major changes are implemented. Lest we forget that many PDOs/ETOs are familiar with the program but cannot translate their deep knowledge into a concise form of rhetoric to have a casual dialogue with the person they are mentoring. Instead, they end up speaking gibberish.