November 27, 2020, 08:09:30 pm

USAF RPP opens to Enlisted.

Started by Spam, November 19, 2020, 09:57:45 am

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Spam


swodog

Very cool.  CAP needs this kind of work.

Ozzy

Still no training allowed for senior members though.
Ozyilmaz, MSgt, CAP
C/Lt. Colonel (Ret.)
NYWG Encampment 07, 08, 09, 10, 17
CTWG Encampment 09, 11, 16
NER Cadet Leadership School 10
GAWG Encampment 18, 19
FLWG Winter Encampment 19

Eclipse

Quote from: Ozzy on November 19, 2020, 05:25:16 pmStill no training allowed for senior members though.

Senior members may receive flight training under certain conditions (See CAPR 70-1, Page 7).
However other then the (possibly) cheaper cost of the aircraft, there's little advantage or need
for CAP to assume the risk of training adults.

The same CFI who is offering to train you for free in a CAP uniform can do it with
less red tape anywhere he wants.



Eclipse

There's also no prohibition about teaching the ground school portion to anyone,
which can be a good orientation and / or save some $$$ as well.



abdsp51

This has been around for a good while.

etodd

Quote from: Ozzy on November 19, 2020, 05:25:16 pmStill no training allowed for senior members though.

Maybe not PPL,  but once you've done that yourself, CAP is a fantastic way to progress. I did my IFR, Commercial, and CFI all in the last 2 1/2 years in our Squadron's C172/G1000.  Saved $$$$$$.

(Disclaimer .... Wings and Squadrons vary greatly. Have to find the right one to make all this happen.)
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

Fubar

Quote from: Ozzy on November 19, 2020, 05:25:16 pmStill no training allowed for senior members though.

True (with a rare exception), but also, should there be? CAP is supposed to be an organization of proficient pilots who donate their time for their community, state, and nation. If we start using appropriated funds to train new adult pilots then our volunteer status is no longer true. Now we're compensated (given the enormous value of flight training) people who are completing flying obligations to repay CAP for the training they received, like a doctor who has to serve in some remote town in return for free or reduced tuition at medical school.

If you're willing to pay for the aircraft rental, fuel, and the CFI, then again there's no reason to go through CAP. Go through a local flight school so you can bend their airplanes. They're used to it.

NHQ has been talking about helping pilots achieve their CFI rating in areas where more CFIs are needed for the wings program, but two years into it and nothing has happened. Most cadets I know in the wings program get sent to flight schools due to the lack of CAP CFIs who are willing to donate their time as free flight instructors. Those same members instead can get paid for their efforts through a flight school, without the CAP red tape that goes with getting a plane in the air.

TheSkyHornet

Quote from: Fubar on November 20, 2020, 08:24:15 amMost cadets I know in the wings program get sent to flight schools due to the lack of CAP CFIs who are willing to donate their time as free flight instructors.

That's my experience as well.

I only know of one cadet in my wing who has earned their Private Pilot certification wholly in CAP. Everyone else goes to local Part 61 flying clubs.

However, I have seen far more CFIs contribute their time to training senior members than I have to cadets.

etodd

Quote from: Fubar on November 20, 2020, 08:24:15 amNHQ has been talking about helping pilots achieve their CFI rating in areas where more CFIs are needed for the wings program, but two years into it and nothing has happened.

Two members of my Squadron have completed IFR, Commercial, and CFI in the last 3 years, training with our Squadron CFIs in the Squadron plane.

But here is the deal. Neither person 'waited' for some National or Wing program to come along. Neither waited for official Squadron training programs or dates to be set.  They were both "self-starters" who worked hard self-studying for all the written tests. And then worked hard at blending some of the training in with actual missions. And having 3 existing CFIs in our Squadron already, who were happy to help, sure made it easier as well. :)

Stop waiting for "programs". Get it done.

MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

Spam

Hi, Etodd.

Are you stating that they did things like, for example, extending a sortie on an AFAM training mission to shoot practice IFR approaches, or something like that?

I'm trying to understand what you imply with the word, "blending", since we typically have policies about crossing the streams on funded events.

V/r
Spam

Eclipse

Quote from: Spam on November 21, 2020, 02:00:33 amI'm trying to understand what you imply with the word, "blending", since we typically have policies about crossing the streams on funded events.




etodd

Quote from: Spam on November 21, 2020, 02:00:33 amHi, Etodd.

Are you stating that they did things like, for example, extending a sortie on an AFAM training mission to shoot practice IFR approaches, or something like that?

I'm trying to understand what you imply with the word, "blending", since we typically have policies about crossing the streams on funded events.

V/r
Spam

I would volunteer for lots of MX missions. Taking a plane for mx or taking the chase plane to bring the crew back. File IFR and have my CFII right seat. Fly the whole time under the foggles and fly the approach. A lot of those hours required for IFR were flown this way. Used absolutely no extra time on the airplane. No maneuvers practiced in-between. Perfectly acceptable. Point to point  :)

We sometimes fly a mission for the Army, giving their ATC practice with PAR approaches. We fly several hours a day in the pattern letting them guide us in. Wear foggles and have a safety pilot or CFII with you. Another perfect example.

YES ... the problem would be a MX mission where you sidetracked and did some Chandelles or something wasting time. No ... never did that.
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

Spam

Quote from: Spam on November 21, 2020, 02:00:33 amHi, Etodd.

Are you stating that they did things like, for example, extending a sortie on an AFAM training mission to shoot practice IFR approaches, or something like that?

I'm trying to understand what you imply with the word, "blending", since we typically have policies about crossing the streams on funded events.

V/r
Spam

... before someone cries, "cite" (which is a legit response), here's what I was alluding to (emphasis added):

CAPR 60-3 26 DECEMBER 2012
3-3. Air Force-assigned Reimbursable Training and Evaluation Missions.
d. Air Force-assigned training missions are planned to accomplish specific training requirements. The specific training objectives must be reviewed and approved by the CAP-USAF LR through the WMIRS training mission request process.

3-5. Scheduling and Requesting Air Force-assigned Training or Evaluation Missions.
a. General.
(g) Flight clinics or training flights where training supports any Air Force-Assigned Mission conducted under an approved training syllabus (See CAPR 60-1). Training cannot lead to a higher airman rating or certificate.

etodd

November 21, 2020, 02:33:06 am #14 Last Edit: November 21, 2020, 04:23:18 am by etodd Reason: To clarify
QuoteAir Force-assigned Reimbursable Training and Evaluation Missions

I've never flown one of those where I mixed in personal training for a cert or rating.

MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

Eclipse

You're an MP and you've never flown at a SAREx with an A-Number?

Or for that matter a real-world?

Didn't you say you flew the escorts in the NE?



etodd

Quote from: Eclipse on November 21, 2020, 02:35:16 amYou're an MP and you've never flown at a SAREx with an A-Number?

Or for that matter a real-world?

Didn't you say you flew the escorts in the NE?

Heck yeah.  I mean I've never flown any type of "Air Force-assigned Reimbursable Training and Evaluation Mission" ... where I used it for my personal training. The two examples I gave are outside of that.   Corporate MX flight for example.
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

etodd

Try to diss me all you want. I'm trying to be the positive person here showing how a self-starter pilot, who can get a CFII to help ... can progress through the certs and ratings, inside of CAP. Too many people saying it can't be done. YES ... it'll still cost you lots of self pay C missions. But can save thousands compared to doing it elsewhere.

Its a good thing. Encourage it. If you have the personal funding, quit waiting for a "program".  Get started. :)
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

Eclipse

Quote from: etodd on November 21, 2020, 02:39:04 amI mean I've never flown any type of "Air Force-assigned Reimbursable Training and Evaluation Mission"

What do you think a SAREx is?



etodd

Quote from: Eclipse on November 21, 2020, 03:27:26 am
Quote from: etodd on November 21, 2020, 02:39:04 amI mean I've never flown any type of "Air Force-assigned Reimbursable Training and Evaluation Mission"

What do you think a SAREx is?

As I said ... I did not use a SAREX mission for the type of training I discussed above. Go back and read it.  :)
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

etodd

Sorry guys, but if your negativity has you trying to "catch me" at something, you're out of luck.

I've said it often here before and I guess I'll repeat it. When it comes to training people and helping people to progress on the ES Aircrew side, I guess I just lucked up in joining the best CAP squadron there is. To listen to most everyone else, here , or on FB, or other places, all I ever hear is talk of how hard it is, or impossible it is, or talk of not being able to break into the "good old boy club". It just makes me sad to hear that so often.

So yes, I take every chance I get to let people know its not that way everywhere. If you have a few squadrons within driving range ... shop around until you find the one with the best group of people who like to train others.

Its a good thing, if you can find it.  :)
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

Spam

Quote from: etodd on November 21, 2020, 03:43:06 am
Quote from: Eclipse on November 21, 2020, 03:27:26 am
Quote from: etodd on November 21, 2020, 02:39:04 amI mean I've never flown any type of "Air Force-assigned Reimbursable Training and Evaluation Mission"

What do you think a SAREx is?

As I said ... I did not use a SAREX mission for the type of training I discussed above. Go back and read it.  :)

eTodd, this is called "deflecting".

He's not questioning the maintenance missions you mentioned.

The issue at hand is that you have a huge string of letters in you sig, claiming to have all these quals, and you now appear to be clearly stating that you've never actually been on a numbered training mission, as required by CAP regulations, in order to earn them.

That is a serious issue, if true, from a Stan/Eval standpoint. Please don't deflect or use some logical fallacy in responding; just lay it out for us. Did you get the minimum two numbered missions, per each of your publicly listed ES quals, or not? This is a yes, or no, answer - what say you

This is not negativity, this is called "compliance" and "accountability", and it is an element of professional airmanship, as laid out by the Air Force to try to break the cycle of horrible airmanship safety. When you say "it is not that way everywhere" - when it comes to airmanship and flight/operational standardization - yes, it is, whether in Idaho, Illinois, or Georgia. If you are not, or are cutting corners on standards, then there is a problem. I speak as an officer who regrettably had the duty to ground one of my pilots two weeks ago, when we really need all the pilots we can get - who can play by the rules.


V/r
Spam

etodd

November 21, 2020, 04:11:23 am #22 Last Edit: November 21, 2020, 04:20:17 am by etodd
YES ... Lordy ..... I have over 300 hours in CAP planes alone, flying everything from SAREX, AP, O-Rides, MX, ELT searches, Predator Chase, more, etc., etc.  :)

Maybe I could have written the first post better, but I did clarify it a post or two later. Start at the beginning and read mine in order. LOL

Yes ... I've only been in CAP for 5 years and have 300 of my total of 1200 hours in CAP planes.

(200 of that is C missions. That is how much this training costs me.)

Fully qualified MP, and more. 
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

Spam


etodd

November 21, 2020, 04:24:29 am #24 Last Edit: November 21, 2020, 04:30:43 am by etodd
Quote from: Spam on November 21, 2020, 04:12:50 am... deflecting.

V/r
Spam

The first word of my post above was YES ... in answer to you wanting a yes or no answer.  Geez.

Some of you folks just itch to see something. Move along. Nothing to see here, but this guy trying to get others interested in training.

Some folks just can't stand self-starters who get things done "within regs and the system" but without waiting for an official program, that they can "oversee".

MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

Spam

The general tone of almost every one of your posts revolves around cutting corners, short circuiting procedures, and "getting things done" in spite of established process. Then, you get defensive and fly the deny/deflect flag when you make a clear statement that you've never been to a training mission despite advanced quals.

This isn't an "Eclipse vs. etodd" or "Spam vs. etodd" conflict. This is you against the system.

And the relevance to the original post is not incidental; the Air Force watches us to ensure that we train, fly, and operate to standards, and when we have people who give the appearance of skirting those standards, leaders step in. Sadly, there's a long history of death and waste where that doesn't happen, because people don't like being challenged up.

So, if you don't like briefing room rules, get out of the briefing room.

V/r
Spam

PHall

etodd, you're the one who posted about all of this. You want people to stop looking and asking questions, stop posting about it.

etodd

You're trying to read things between the lines that are not there.

Look at my last post above where I said "done within regs and the system".

All the Is are dotted and t's are crossed.  Its all fine. Relax. :)
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

etodd

Quote from: PHall on November 21, 2020, 04:39:28 ametodd, you're the one who posted about all of this. You want people to stop looking and asking questions, stop posting about it.

Ask away. I get plenty of PMs.  I'm happy to answer any questions here as well. I've answered all of the above. Did I miss one?

(Memories of when I first started the sUAS posts and everyone went ballistic thinking I was a rogue player, until they finally figured out I was doing everything by the book per Hdqs. Whew!)
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

Blanding

Quote from: Spam link=msg=436303That is a serious issue, if true, from a Stan/Eval standpoint. Please don't deflect or use some logical fallacy in responding; just lay it out for us. Did you get the minimum two numbered missions, per each of your publicly listed ES quals, or not? This is a yes, or no, answer - what say you.

Spam,
Why do you feel you have the right to question this member, and why do you feel he owes you an answer?

His responses to you have been impressively cordial considering the treatment he's received.

As if etodd simply stating he's a mission pilot entitles you to treat him like he's circumvented the requirements for qualification. "...per each of your publicly listed ES quals..." good lord.

CAP9907

Wow. Not sure how we got here, but this is closed until I can evaluate and do some cleaning.

~9907
21 yrs of service

Our Members Code of Conduct can be found here:   http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=13.0

CAP9907

Nevermind, we're done here. End///

9907
21 yrs of service

Our Members Code of Conduct can be found here:   http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=13.0