November 23, 2020, 10:30:33 pm

USAF RPP opens to Enlisted.

Started by Spam, November 19, 2020, 09:57:45 am

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Spam


swodog

Very cool.  CAP needs this kind of work.

Ozzy

Still no training allowed for senior members though.
Ozyilmaz, MSgt, CAP
C/Lt. Colonel (Ret.)
NYWG Encampment 07, 08, 09, 10, 17
CTWG Encampment 09, 11, 16
NER Cadet Leadership School 10
GAWG Encampment 18, 19
FLWG Winter Encampment 19

Eclipse

Quote from: Ozzy on November 19, 2020, 05:25:16 pmStill no training allowed for senior members though.

Senior members may receive flight training under certain conditions (See CAPR 70-1, Page 7).
However other then the (possibly) cheaper cost of the aircraft, there's little advantage or need
for CAP to assume the risk of training adults.

The same CFI who is offering to train you for free in a CAP uniform can do it with
less red tape anywhere he wants.



Eclipse

There's also no prohibition about teaching the ground school portion to anyone,
which can be a good orientation and / or save some $$$ as well.



abdsp51

This has been around for a good while.

etodd

Quote from: Ozzy on November 19, 2020, 05:25:16 pmStill no training allowed for senior members though.

Maybe not PPL,  but once you've done that yourself, CAP is a fantastic way to progress. I did my IFR, Commercial, and CFI all in the last 2 1/2 years in our Squadron's C172/G1000.  Saved $$$$$$.

(Disclaimer .... Wings and Squadrons vary greatly. Have to find the right one to make all this happen.)
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

Fubar

Quote from: Ozzy on November 19, 2020, 05:25:16 pmStill no training allowed for senior members though.

True (with a rare exception), but also, should there be? CAP is supposed to be an organization of proficient pilots who donate their time for their community, state, and nation. If we start using appropriated funds to train new adult pilots then our volunteer status is no longer true. Now we're compensated (given the enormous value of flight training) people who are completing flying obligations to repay CAP for the training they received, like a doctor who has to serve in some remote town in return for free or reduced tuition at medical school.

If you're willing to pay for the aircraft rental, fuel, and the CFI, then again there's no reason to go through CAP. Go through a local flight school so you can bend their airplanes. They're used to it.

NHQ has been talking about helping pilots achieve their CFI rating in areas where more CFIs are needed for the wings program, but two years into it and nothing has happened. Most cadets I know in the wings program get sent to flight schools due to the lack of CAP CFIs who are willing to donate their time as free flight instructors. Those same members instead can get paid for their efforts through a flight school, without the CAP red tape that goes with getting a plane in the air.

TheSkyHornet

Quote from: Fubar on November 20, 2020, 08:24:15 amMost cadets I know in the wings program get sent to flight schools due to the lack of CAP CFIs who are willing to donate their time as free flight instructors.

That's my experience as well.

I only know of one cadet in my wing who has earned their Private Pilot certification wholly in CAP. Everyone else goes to local Part 61 flying clubs.

However, I have seen far more CFIs contribute their time to training senior members than I have to cadets.

etodd

Quote from: Fubar on November 20, 2020, 08:24:15 amNHQ has been talking about helping pilots achieve their CFI rating in areas where more CFIs are needed for the wings program, but two years into it and nothing has happened.

Two members of my Squadron have completed IFR, Commercial, and CFI in the last 3 years, training with our Squadron CFIs in the Squadron plane.

But here is the deal. Neither person 'waited' for some National or Wing program to come along. Neither waited for official Squadron training programs or dates to be set.  They were both "self-starters" who worked hard self-studying for all the written tests. And then worked hard at blending some of the training in with actual missions. And having 3 existing CFIs in our Squadron already, who were happy to help, sure made it easier as well. :)

Stop waiting for "programs". Get it done.

MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

Spam

Hi, Etodd.

Are you stating that they did things like, for example, extending a sortie on an AFAM training mission to shoot practice IFR approaches, or something like that?

I'm trying to understand what you imply with the word, "blending", since we typically have policies about crossing the streams on funded events.

V/r
Spam

Eclipse

Quote from: Spam on November 21, 2020, 02:00:33 amI'm trying to understand what you imply with the word, "blending", since we typically have policies about crossing the streams on funded events.




etodd

Quote from: Spam on November 21, 2020, 02:00:33 amHi, Etodd.

Are you stating that they did things like, for example, extending a sortie on an AFAM training mission to shoot practice IFR approaches, or something like that?

I'm trying to understand what you imply with the word, "blending", since we typically have policies about crossing the streams on funded events.

V/r
Spam

I would volunteer for lots of MX missions. Taking a plane for mx or taking the chase plane to bring the crew back. File IFR and have my CFII right seat. Fly the whole time under the foggles and fly the approach. A lot of those hours required for IFR were flown this way. Used absolutely no extra time on the airplane. No maneuvers practiced in-between. Perfectly acceptable. Point to point  :)

We sometimes fly a mission for the Army, giving their ATC practice with PAR approaches. We fly several hours a day in the pattern letting them guide us in. Wear foggles and have a safety pilot or CFII with you. Another perfect example.

YES ... the problem would be a MX mission where you sidetracked and did some Chandelles or something wasting time. No ... never did that.
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

Spam

Quote from: Spam on November 21, 2020, 02:00:33 amHi, Etodd.

Are you stating that they did things like, for example, extending a sortie on an AFAM training mission to shoot practice IFR approaches, or something like that?

I'm trying to understand what you imply with the word, "blending", since we typically have policies about crossing the streams on funded events.

V/r
Spam

... before someone cries, "cite" (which is a legit response), here's what I was alluding to (emphasis added):

CAPR 60-3 26 DECEMBER 2012
3-3. Air Force-assigned Reimbursable Training and Evaluation Missions.
d. Air Force-assigned training missions are planned to accomplish specific training requirements. The specific training objectives must be reviewed and approved by the CAP-USAF LR through the WMIRS training mission request process.

3-5. Scheduling and Requesting Air Force-assigned Training or Evaluation Missions.
a. General.
(g) Flight clinics or training flights where training supports any Air Force-Assigned Mission conducted under an approved training syllabus (See CAPR 60-1). Training cannot lead to a higher airman rating or certificate.

etodd

November 21, 2020, 02:33:06 am #14 Last Edit: November 21, 2020, 04:23:18 am by etodd Reason: To clarify
QuoteAir Force-assigned Reimbursable Training and Evaluation Missions

I've never flown one of those where I mixed in personal training for a cert or rating.

MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

Eclipse

You're an MP and you've never flown at a SAREx with an A-Number?

Or for that matter a real-world?

Didn't you say you flew the escorts in the NE?



etodd

Quote from: Eclipse on November 21, 2020, 02:35:16 amYou're an MP and you've never flown at a SAREx with an A-Number?

Or for that matter a real-world?

Didn't you say you flew the escorts in the NE?

Heck yeah.  I mean I've never flown any type of "Air Force-assigned Reimbursable Training and Evaluation Mission" ... where I used it for my personal training. The two examples I gave are outside of that.   Corporate MX flight for example.
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

etodd

Try to diss me all you want. I'm trying to be the positive person here showing how a self-starter pilot, who can get a CFII to help ... can progress through the certs and ratings, inside of CAP. Too many people saying it can't be done. YES ... it'll still cost you lots of self pay C missions. But can save thousands compared to doing it elsewhere.

Its a good thing. Encourage it. If you have the personal funding, quit waiting for a "program".  Get started. :)
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

Eclipse

Quote from: etodd on November 21, 2020, 02:39:04 amI mean I've never flown any type of "Air Force-assigned Reimbursable Training and Evaluation Mission"

What do you think a SAREx is?



etodd

Quote from: Eclipse on November 21, 2020, 03:27:26 am
Quote from: etodd on November 21, 2020, 02:39:04 amI mean I've never flown any type of "Air Force-assigned Reimbursable Training and Evaluation Mission"

What do you think a SAREx is?

As I said ... I did not use a SAREX mission for the type of training I discussed above. Go back and read it.  :)
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot