January 24, 2021, 05:59:57 pm

Ball Cap Ideas

Started by usaf_defender, November 14, 2020, 11:46:27 pm

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usaf_defender

I know, I know. Another uniform post...  I'm thinking of proposing a wing-wide ball cap idea and I was wondering what other wings have done or are doing. Post your squadron/wing ball cap design here. Is there a somewhat standardized design that these are falling into nation wide?  Let's keep this this on topic shall we?  Thanks in advance for your help.


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etodd

I like the shallow one, as it works best when wearing a headset.
Or you could go for the high one, like truckers and farmers wear. More room for logos:

"Don't try to explain it, just bow your head
Breathe in, breathe out, move on ..."

usaf_defender

There we go.


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Eclipse

Quote from: usaf_defender on November 14, 2020, 11:46:27 pmIs there a somewhat standardized design that these are falling into nation wide?

No.

Wings get something "close" to their design based on price, and
then ~1/3 of the wearers crush it up in a ridiculous hardkewl way
so it looks like it got stuck in a dryer door.

"Baseball style cap" is all that is needed standard-wise.



usaf_defender

Swing and a miss. Thanks for your help folks. We'll try again next time.


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sardak

The most recent "ball caps" our wing bought didn't have the button on top.  Another benefit for those wearing headphones. Also think of the size adjustment feature, plastic put the peg in the hole, the clamp, or stretch band. Stay away from the stretch band.

Mike

wacapgh

The latest publication of CAPR 39-1 put a significant limitation on "CAP Baseball Caps" and the ABU:

5.1.1.9.2. Baseball Caps. Unit Commanders may authorize the wear of unit Baseball Caps for wear with the ABU, when approved by the Wing Commander. These caps will be conservative in color and will not be worn outside of unit activities. Red Baseball Caps may not be authorized as this color is reserved by the Air Force for specific special duty units. [Bold added]

To wear them with the ABU outside of a squadron, the wing commander will have to apply to NHQ for a waiver to CAPR 39-1.

They can be worn with almost all other uniforms - Aviator Shirt, Battle Dress Uniform, Corporate Field Uniform, Corporate Working Uniform, Flight Duty Uniform and Corporate Flight Duty Uniform.
Note that the BDU is being phased out next year.

The CAP Baseball Cap is defined in:

6.2. Headgear.
  6.2.8. CAP Baseball Cap. Wing and region commanders may prescribe color, unit designation, and/or emblem to be on the baseball cap. No grade insignia may be worn on this cap, and no emblems (clouds, darts, etc.) may be worn on the cap visor.

"Activity Caps" such as Cadet Encampments, Hawk Mountain, NESA and Blue Beret are restricted to wear only while you are at the activity.

Eclipse

Quote from: wacapgh on November 15, 2020, 11:29:01 pmRed Baseball Caps may not be authorized as this color is reserved by the Air Force for specific special duty units.

And I'd argue "activity caps" should not be red, either, which is going to be a
lead balloon at a number of activities (assuming those activities survive the 'Vid).



TheSkyHornet

Quote from: wacapgh on November 15, 2020, 11:29:01 pmThe latest publication of CAPR 39-1 put a significant limitation on "CAP Baseball Caps" and the ABU:

5.1.1.9.2. Baseball Caps. Unit Commanders may authorize the wear of unit Baseball Caps for wear with the ABU, when approved by the Wing Commander. These caps will be conservative in color and will not be worn outside of unit activities. Red Baseball Caps may not be authorized as this color is reserved by the Air Force for specific special duty units. [Bold added]

To wear them with the ABU outside of a squadron, the wing commander will have to apply to NHQ for a waiver to CAPR 39-1.

They can be worn with almost all other uniforms - Aviator Shirt, Battle Dress Uniform, Corporate Field Uniform, Corporate Working Uniform, Flight Duty Uniform and Corporate Flight Duty Uniform.
Note that the BDU is being phased out next year.

The CAP Baseball Cap is defined in:

6.2. Headgear.
  6.2.8. CAP Baseball Cap. Wing and region commanders may prescribe color, unit designation, and/or emblem to be on the baseball cap. No grade insignia may be worn on this cap, and no emblems (clouds, darts, etc.) may be worn on the cap visor.

"Activity Caps" such as Cadet Encampments, Hawk Mountain, NESA and Blue Beret are restricted to wear only while you are at the activity.

This is one of those items that I seldom see enforced. Far too many people attend activities outside of their unit wearing unit distinctive apparel as part of their uniform. This includes ballcaps and activity t-shirts under their ABUs.

Eclipse

Quote from: TheSkyHornet on November 16, 2020, 12:57:22 amThis is one of those items that I seldom see enforced. Far too many people attend activities outside of their unit wearing unit distinctive apparel as part of their uniform. This includes ballcaps and activity t-shirts under their ABUs.

I'm hopeful this will be reduced as the verbiage is a lot more clear in this regard,
really no wiggle room.

I don't even understand why these activities waste so much money on this nonsense
(other then "my daddy's daddy had a lime green crushed ball cap with huge letter, and
I'll be darn'ed if my grankids don't!"). These are supposed to be standardized environments
showing CAP at scale, and the first thing they do is break a bunch or regs.

Activity shirts for PT?  Sure.  Special hats for each flight?  Why?

The only issue, as written, then the ubiquitous NESA hat could not be worn with CFU or the golf shirt?
That's another lead balloon, not that I care much either way.



GroundHawg

If you order the high crown trucker style, its much easier to block it or ranger roll it

It gives all the cadets something to do

It gives the uniform police something to do

Everyone wins!


TheSkyHornet

Quote from: GroundHawg on November 16, 2020, 01:16:58 pmIf you order the high crown trucker style, its much easier to block it or ranger roll it

It gives all the cadets something to do

It gives the uniform police something to do

Everyone wins!


How do you ranger roll a round-top ballcap?

I'm that guy. I've only seen a PC ranger rolled one time, and I told the cadet to undo it. Of course, I got an eye roll in response.

Eclipse

Quote from: TheSkyHornet on November 16, 2020, 03:44:31 pmHow do you ranger roll a round-top ballcap?

See above - you jam it in the dryer door and turn it on high heat.
(Or at least the results are the same...")



wacapgh

Quote from: Eclipse on November 16, 2020, 01:08:09 am
Quote from: TheSkyHornet on November 16, 2020, 12:57:22 amThis is one of those items that I seldom see enforced. Far too many people attend activities outside of their unit wearing unit distinctive apparel as part of their uniform. This includes ballcaps and activity t-shirts under their ABUs.


The only issue, as written, then the ubiquitous NESA hat could not be worn with CFU or the golf shirt?
That's another lead balloon, not that I care much either way.

As far as the NESA cap:

9.2.2. National Emergency Services Academy (NESA). Attendees at the NESA programs may wear the NESA t-shirt, polo shirt and cap with shorts, and tennis shoes as prescribed by the activity director, during that activity, to include travel to and from the activity.

So it is up to the NESA activity directors which uniforms it can be worn with during the activity.

As far as activity shirts and other caps, a Wing Commander can always submit a supplement to NHQ asking for specific exceptions to the the regulations. If approved, it will be published on the NHQ web page and then it is "Good To Go".

Under CAPR 1-2, these supplements need to be recertified every 12 months or they are no longer valid.

Eclipse

Quote from: wacapgh on November 16, 2020, 05:51:03 pmSo it is up to the NESA activity directors which uniforms it can be worn with during the activity.

I meant after.  Would one read that as not being allowed with Corporate Variants
outside the activity as well (for ball caps).



Capt Thompson

Michigan Wing has a simple black flexfit ball cap with the Wing patch on the front, they sell them at Encampment and other Wing activities. Our Squadron likewise has a blue flexfit with the Squadron patch on the front, although we haven't ordered them in years so only a few members still wear them, and I don't think any of the Cadets have been around that long.
Capt Matt Thompson
Deputy Commander for Cadets, Historian, Public Affairs Officer

Mitchell - 31 OCT 98 (#44670) Earhart - 1 OCT 00 (#11401)

wacapgh

Quote from: Eclipse on November 16, 2020, 06:04:30 pm
Quote from: wacapgh on November 16, 2020, 05:51:03 pmSo it is up to the NESA activity directors which uniforms it can be worn with during the activity.

I meant after.  Would one read that as not being allowed with Corporate Variants
outside the activity as well (for ball caps).

One could read it that way since it has a specific restriction in 39-1 (9.2.2), the limitation would apply to all CAP activities and uniforms.

This one is several levels above my pay grade  :P

usaf_defender

November 17, 2020, 12:20:22 pm #17 Last Edit: November 17, 2020, 12:24:15 pm by usaf_defender
Has anyone used a simple black tactical cap with the 3x5 Velcro patch on it?  Maybe wording the patch "Civil Air Patrol" and "XX-034" (wing and squadron designation) or just Wing.

Photo for example. Apologies if this is you or your squadron.





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Jester

Quote from: usaf_defender on November 17, 2020, 12:20:22 pmHas anyone used a simple black tactical cap with the 3x5 Velcro patch on it? 



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I use a dark blue one for polo and BBDU field wear.  It wouldn't hurt my feelings if we just went to that CAP-wide.

Spam

Quote from: usaf_defender on November 17, 2020, 12:20:22 pmPhoto for example. Apologies if this is you or your squadron.


Off topic here, but wow, what an expression on his face.
I assume that pic was a flag retirement ceremony or something.

R/s
Spam

usaf_defender

You're correct. I pulled it from an article on a flag decommissioning ceremony.


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shuman14

The simple question is... why is there not one standard/uniform CAP ball cap outlined in the regulation?

I get the concept of a unit specific headgear, worn at unit activities and functions, but there needs to be a clear directive what is to be worn when not at those activities.

Yes I know, as certain old curmudgeons like to point out, "no one needs a CAP baseball cap"... BUT... if the Regulation is going to authorize its wear it needs to be defined and not just a vague reference to a CAP Baseball cap.

Otherwise, you'll have fifty members in formation, in thirty different CAP baseball caps, and they'll all be right but it will look so wrong.

Also, I don't understand the reasoning for not allowing rank on the CAP Baseball cap. Rank is worn on the other working uniform hats (i.e. ABU, BDU, BBDU), what logic is used to say this is not something to be allowed?
Joseph J. Clune
Lieutenant Colonel, Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 - 1998, 2000 - 2003, 2005 - Present     CAP: National Patron 2013 - 2014, SMWOG 2020 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000      Active Army: 2003 - 2005                                       USCGAux: 2004 - Present

Blanding

Quote from: shuman14 on November 18, 2020, 03:36:32 pmThe simple question is... why is there not one standard/uniform CAP ball cap outlined in the regulation?


Because...

Quote from: undefinedOtherwise, you'll have fifty members in formation, in thirty different CAP baseball caps, and they'll all be right but it will look so wrong.

...perhaps the organization would rather *have* fifty members in formation vs. drive them all away by telling them they "look wrong".

shuman14

Quote...perhaps the organization would rather *have* fifty members in formation vs. drive them all away by telling them they "look wrong".

Then why bother having uniforms at all? Bermuda shorts and a pink Rude Dog tee-shirt for me! After all you want me in that formation... right?
Joseph J. Clune
Lieutenant Colonel, Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 - 1998, 2000 - 2003, 2005 - Present     CAP: National Patron 2013 - 2014, SMWOG 2020 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000      Active Army: 2003 - 2005                                       USCGAux: 2004 - Present

Eclipse

Quote from: Blanding on November 18, 2020, 03:54:57 pm...perhaps the organization would rather *have* fifty members in formation vs. drive them all away by telling them they "look wrong".

Or perhaps the organization could publish standards and require compliance.

And then people could join the organizaiton and comply instead of pretending the organization
is "lucky they showed up at all".

Fair enough that the corporate variants are intended to reduce costs for the membership, but there
has to be a line of compliance somewhere.   The organizations CAP seeks to emulate or work with
do not accept the level of nonsense CAP puts up with in the misguided name of "retention".

The ARC, Salvation Army, LEAs, FDs, even EMAs have appearance standards for a reason, and little
tolerance for "special".

How anyone joins a military auxiliary and then is shocked about "standards" has escaped me for 21 years.
It points to poor vetting when recruiting, poor indoc training, and most certainly the central problem
which is lack of enforcement with ramifications.

Seriously, the door is over there.  There are plenty of local orgs that can use your help.



Blanding

November 18, 2020, 06:12:37 pm #25 Last Edit: November 18, 2020, 07:57:16 pm by Blanding
QuoteThen why bother having uniforms at all? Bermuda shorts and a pink Rude Dog tee-shirt for me! After all you want me in that formation... right?

Yes, I do. Especially if you can rock it like them:



I'm really enjoying you equating members having a non-standard ball cap to wearing Bermuda shorts. I know whenever I put on a hat that doesn't look the same as the person next to me I just go crazy and start spray painting the walls.

shuman14

QuoteI just go crazy and start spray painting the walls.

Sounds like a personal issue, have you sought professional help?   ;D
Joseph J. Clune
Lieutenant Colonel, Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 - 1998, 2000 - 2003, 2005 - Present     CAP: National Patron 2013 - 2014, SMWOG 2020 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000      Active Army: 2003 - 2005                                       USCGAux: 2004 - Present

Blanding

Quote from: shuman14 on November 18, 2020, 06:23:40 pm
QuoteI just go crazy and start spray painting the walls.

Sounds like a personal issue, have you sought professional help?   ;D

Heh; I'm still looking for the cure... it's out there somewhere.

arajca

Quote from: Blanding on November 18, 2020, 06:30:53 pm
Quote from: shuman14 on November 18, 2020, 06:23:40 pm
QuoteI just go crazy and start spray painting the walls.

Sounds like a personal issue, have you sought professional help?   ;D

Heh; I'm still looking for the cure... it's out there somewhere.
Cure? I thought you'd be looking for tools. >:D

usaf_defender

Mods: My question has been answered. At least to the  point that it ever really could have been.


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