Eligibility to Officially Promoted - How Long?

Started by Stonewall, September 17, 2020, 05:36:33 pm

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Stonewall

What would you consider an acceptable time a cadet should expect to wait before their promotion is updated in eServices?

Example: C/SSgt Tentpeg has completed all requirements (or waived due to Covid) on 15 Sep. When should they expect to see the promotion show up in eServices?

How soon and what is too long?

arajca

What is the process for processing the waivers? Does it require a manual submission?

Stonewall

Quote from: arajca on September 17, 2020, 05:46:32 pmWhat is the process for processing the waivers? Does it require a manual submission?

No. For instance, drill test waiver means the CDC or CC simply checks the box that says "drill test complete" in lieu of a cadet actually doing the drill test. No added effort whatsoever.  Cadet passes tests, parents administer CPFT and sends results to CDC/CC, Character Development accomplished (virtually), and they're done.

To re-state the question: The cadet has completed everything (Covid or no covid waivers), they just need someone to approve the promotion.  How long is an acceptable time to wait before they start making noise?

Eclipse

Quote from: Stonewall on September 17, 2020, 05:50:51 pmHow long is an acceptable time to wait before they start making noise?

There should be zero delay and it should be approved immediately.

There is no excuse for this, especially now when retention is such an issue.

I can't being to imagine what excuse there would be considering these things can be approved on people's phones. This is a great way to lose a cadet who is hanging in there
during a touch time.



jeders

Does the person doing the approvals know that Tentpeg is eligible for promotion? In my experience (i.e. every time I forgot to promote a cadet/senior) it's usually because the person who is responsible for submitting the promotion doesn't realize that the cadet is eligible.

However, if the person handling cadet promotions knows that Tentpole is eligible and waiting for promotion, then as Bob said, there should be zero delay and approval should be immediate.
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

Stonewall

Quote from: jeders on September 17, 2020, 06:52:14 pmDoes the person doing the approvals know that Tentpeg is eligible for promotion? In my experience (i.e. every time I forgot to promote a cadet/senior) it's usually because the person who is responsible for submitting the promotion doesn't realize that the cadet is eligible.

However, if the person handling cadet promotions knows that Tentpole is eligible and waiting for promotion, then as Bob said, there should be zero delay and approval should be immediate.

I'm a group commander and spent a few minutes doing some spot checks of the units in my group. I found a lot of these, from two weeks to six months.

Eclipse

Quote from: Stonewall on September 17, 2020, 06:58:26 pmI found a lot of these, from two weeks to six months.

I've done the same and found the same in the past, or the issues bubble up when
a cadet applies for something outside the unit and questions are asked.

I just do not understand it.  A day or two because you forgot, sure.

Months?  I mean at some point it's on everybody, even the parents, but
I just don't know how it's even possible.



MSG Mac

It's been two days. Have you contacted the CC/CDC or Testing Officer? In these days of virtual meetings they may not even be aware that the cadet passed everything. Could they be waiting for the 56 days between promotions? If so, promotions can be backdated during the approval process.

Have the parents or the cadet ask.
Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
50 Year Member

Stonewall

Quote from: MSG Mac on September 17, 2020, 08:43:03 pmIt's been two days. Have you contacted the CC/CDC or Testing Officer? In these days of virtual meetings they may not even be aware that the cadet passed everything. Could they be waiting for the 56 days between promotions? If so, promotions can be backdated during the approval process.

Have the parents or the cadet ask.

In one case, yes, a cadet sent that message up. Ready to promote 29 Aug, still not done. I am familiar with that one and that's what prompted me to investigate further.

It's also incumbent upon squadron leadership (CDC at a minimum) to send that message out: "cadets, things are different, we don't see each other face to face, make sure you're communicating when you've passed tests and think you're ready to promote and we will review your status."

No such message or communications otherwise, for most of the pandemic.

baronet68

Quote from: Stonewall on September 17, 2020, 05:36:33 pmWhat would you consider an acceptable time a cadet should expect to wait before their promotion is updated in eServices?

Example: C/SSgt Tentpeg has completed all requirements (or waived due to Covid) on 15 Sep. When should they expect to see the promotion show up in eServices?

How soon and what is too long?

Seven days...  More than that is a leadership failure.
Michael Moore, Maj, CAP
National Recruiting & Retention Manager

Capt Thompson

I'm surprised the Cadets aren't raising a fuss. I had 4 Cadets finish requirements for promotion tonight (all were waiting on CD and drill tests which were complete tonight) and before I could get home and key everything in I had messages from 3 of them asking when they would be promoted in eServices.

I try to check eServices every morning to see if there are any validations, but that's me. I could see a couple days if the CDC doesn't check every day and the Cadet finished an online exam and didn't communicate that it was done. I don't think 2 days is too long, but a week would be, especially when it's just a click of a button.

It would be nice if eServices could kick out an email to the CDC when there are approvals in the queue, then there wouldn't really be an excuse to wait.
Capt Matt Thompson
Deputy Commander for Cadets, Historian, Public Affairs Officer

Mitchell - 31 OCT 98 (#44670) Earhart - 1 OCT 00 (#11401)

Eclipse

September 18, 2020, 03:11:30 am #11 Last Edit: September 18, 2020, 05:04:55 am by Eclipse
Quote from: Capt Thompson on September 18, 2020, 02:11:29 amI try to check eServices every morning to see if there are any validations,

This is the crux.  Sadly, CAP has far too many members, including CC's, who still view
email and web access as a scheduled activity that happens twice a week, with a brandy,
after the cats have had their medicine and AGT is over.

When you don't press expectations, this is the result.

I also agree that eservices needs to do a much better job at alerting when approvals are pending.
I get ES stuff, but everything else just sits and spins quietly.



Stonewall

Quote from: Capt Thompson on September 18, 2020, 02:11:29 amI'm surprised the Cadets aren't raising a fuss. I had 4 Cadets finish requirements for promotion tonight (all were waiting on CD and drill tests which were complete tonight) and before I could get home and key everything in I had messages from 3 of them asking when they would be promoted in eServices.

Based on my observations, I think the problem is the cadets don't necessarily always know to do this, even if they think to themselves "hmmm, maybe I should let someone know, but who?" I think it's simply a lack of communications, and not on the side of the cadets. A young cadet, 12, 13, or even 15 years old, may not feel comfortable communicating with a senior member.

Eclipse

Yes, adolescents are not always the best communicators, nor do they want to
step on toes or be pushy, especially, for some reason, the current generation(s).

This was a conversation with #2 son this week after his first job interview.

Comes back from interview.
"Did you get the job?"
"I don't know."
Puts new hire packet on the table
"They gave you that but didn't tell you if you were hired? When will they let you know?"
"He said I could start Monday if I get this in by Saturday."
((*sigh*))




Capt Thompson

Quote from: Eclipse on September 18, 2020, 02:34:57 pmYes, adolescents are not always the best communicators, nor do they want to
step on toes or be pushy, especially, for some reason, the current generation(s).

This was a conversation with #2 son this week after his first job interview.

Comes back from interview.
"Did you get the job?"
"I don't know."
Puts new hire packet on the table
"They gave you that but didn't tell you if you were hired? When will they let you know?"
"He said I could start Monday if I get this in by Saturday."
((*sigh*))


I definitely have these Cadets too, but for the most part mine have been on top of where they are. Most of them are very competitive so when they see someone from their original cohort promoting they know they must be close and start asking questions. I have 6 Cadets that will be pinned with new rank on blues night in 2 weeks, and two others who are trying to get their last few requirements done before then so they can promote with their friends.
Capt Matt Thompson
Deputy Commander for Cadets, Historian, Public Affairs Officer

Mitchell - 31 OCT 98 (#44670) Earhart - 1 OCT 00 (#11401)

Dad Jokes

Most of the time I remember when cadets are close but loose track of TIG often.  But what I have gotten in a habit of doing is when I get an email about someone passing a test, I just pop on the computer to check what the rest of their status is.  The testing email is a good reminder.  I also pull a full tracking report each week the morning ( or just before ) the weekly meeting to make sure someone has not slipped through the cracks.  It's also a good thing to give the cadet command a copy of so they can stay on top of someone that needs a little nudge. "Hey, you only need your AE test for your next promotion, when will you get that accomplished?"

TheSkyHornet

Quote from: Stonewall on September 17, 2020, 06:58:26 pm
Quote from: jeders on September 17, 2020, 06:52:14 pmDoes the person doing the approvals know that Tentpeg is eligible for promotion? In my experience (i.e. every time I forgot to promote a cadet/senior) it's usually because the person who is responsible for submitting the promotion doesn't realize that the cadet is eligible.

However, if the person handling cadet promotions knows that Tentpole is eligible and waiting for promotion, then as Bob said, there should be zero delay and approval should be immediate.

I'm a group commander and spent a few minutes doing some spot checks of the units in my group. I found a lot of these, from two weeks to six months.

That's absolutely obnoxious, and it's lazy on the part of the commander (or designee).

I've seen that with cadets in other units where they "supposedly" promoted but it "hasn't been updated in eServices yet."

"When did you promote?"
"Like three months ago."

The problem is whether or not you're assured that the person actually promoted or if they're being held up for some reason. You sort of have to take their word for it but with a shred of doubt.

My stance is that if you have to be x-grade to hold a post, and you tell me that it just wasn't updated in eServices, then they need to go back to the unit and explain that to the commander. I'm not going to budge just because you're giving me an anecdote.

But to hold someone up for that period of time denies them the credit on their record and makes it so they can't test for the next promotion. It's absolutely ridiculous.


Quote from: Stonewall on September 18, 2020, 12:06:55 pm
Quote from: Capt Thompson on September 18, 2020, 02:11:29 amI'm surprised the Cadets aren't raising a fuss. I had 4 Cadets finish requirements for promotion tonight (all were waiting on CD and drill tests which were complete tonight) and before I could get home and key everything in I had messages from 3 of them asking when they would be promoted in eServices.

Based on my observations, I think the problem is the cadets don't necessarily always know to do this, even if they think to themselves "hmmm, maybe I should let someone know, but who?" I think it's simply a lack of communications, and not on the side of the cadets. A young cadet, 12, 13, or even 15 years old, may not feel comfortable communicating with a senior member.

I had this recently.

"When can I be eligible to promote?"
"We're still waiting on you to turn in your Armstrong essay."
"I emailed it back in August up the chain."

Yeah, found the problem. And you're just asking me a month later what the status is?

Corrected. Misunderstanding. But it's definitely tougher because we're not in person, and with the virtual environment, my inbox has filled up way faster. It's much tougher to stay on top of things without both cadets and senior cadre being vigilant.