Will COVID-19 destroy the cadet program?

Started by 754837, August 27, 2020, 03:49:20 pm

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Toad1168

Quote from: JohhnyD on September 02, 2020, 07:40:03 pm
Quote from: jeders on September 02, 2020, 07:32:27 pmSo what you're saying is that you had at least 70 people at a meeting where you are not supposed to have more than 50, copy.
Nope.

Quotehttps://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/IDWG_COVID_Remobilization_Phase_1_A_EA6816C6EB260.pdf

(4) Stage 4. 13-26 JUN
(a) Gatherings, both public and private, of more than 50 people, where appropriate physical
distancing and precautionary measures are observed can occur.

But why would you want to assume that? Very odd.

You're referencing a Wing re-mobilization plan.  In the plan you provided it talks about stages which are different than the NHQ defined phases.  As Jeders stated, it's impossible for you to be in "Phase" 4 as it does not exist.  There are only three phases in the NHQ re-mobilization and no wing is authorized phase 3 at this time.
Toad

JohhnyD

https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/IDWG_COVID_Remobilization_Phase_1_A_EA6816C6EB260.pdf

(4) Stage 4. 13-26 JUN
(a) Gatherings, both public and private, of more than 50 people, where appropriate physical
distancing and precautionary measures are observed can occur.

Our Wing Plan adopted the state of Idaho language.

Y'all are getting tied up in word use. The reality is we are compliant.

jeders

Quote from: JohhnyD on September 02, 2020, 08:40:06 pmhttps://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/IDWG_COVID_Remobilization_Phase_1_A_EA6816C6EB260.pdf

(4) Stage 4. 13-26 JUN
(a) Gatherings, both public and private, of more than 50 people, where appropriate physical
distancing and precautionary measures are observed can occur.

Our Wing Plan adopted the state of Idaho language.

Y'all are getting tied up in word use. The reality is we are compliant.

Johnny, what you are quoting are the Idaho state guidelines as of 2 June, not what IDWG CAP is allowing. You are also quoting the Phase 1 plan, not the Phase 2 plan which specifically states that gatherings are limited to 50 people.
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

JohhnyD

Quote from: jeders on September 02, 2020, 08:53:44 pm
Quote from: JohhnyD on September 02, 2020, 08:40:06 pmhttps://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/IDWG_COVID_Remobilization_Phase_1_A_EA6816C6EB260.pdf

(4) Stage 4. 13-26 JUN
(a) Gatherings, both public and private, of more than 50 people, where appropriate physical
distancing and precautionary measures are observed can occur.

Our Wing Plan adopted the state of Idaho language.

Y'all are getting tied up in word use. The reality is we are compliant.

Johnny, what you are quoting are the Idaho state guidelines as of 2 June, not what IDWG CAP is allowing. You are also quoting the Phase 1 plan, not the Phase 2 plan which specifically states that gatherings are limited to 50 people.
Yep - https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/IDWG_COVID19_Phase_II_Plan__Approve_E7602CDAB84C6.pdf

And we complied. No gathering exceeded 50 people. Each flight met separately, as did the senior members. Again, we are compliant.

CAP9907

Quote from: JohhnyD on September 03, 2020, 01:48:26 am
Quote from: jeders on September 02, 2020, 08:53:44 pm
Quote from: JohhnyD on September 02, 2020, 08:40:06 pmhttps://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/IDWG_COVID_Remobilization_Phase_1_A_EA6816C6EB260.pdf

(4) Stage 4. 13-26 JUN
(a) Gatherings, both public and private, of more than 50 people, where appropriate physical
distancing and precautionary measures are observed can occur.

Our Wing Plan adopted the state of Idaho language.

Y'all are getting tied up in word use. The reality is we are compliant.

Johnny, what you are quoting are the Idaho state guidelines as of 2 June, not what IDWG CAP is allowing. You are also quoting the Phase 1 plan, not the Phase 2 plan which specifically states that gatherings are limited to 50 people.
Yep - https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/IDWG_COVID19_Phase_II_Plan__Approve_E7602CDAB84C6.pdf

And we complied. No gathering exceeded 50 people. Each flight met separately, as did the senior members. Again, we are compliant.

No, you're not. Your 'gathering' clearly had at least 60+ people there:

"Last night, three cadet flights of about 20 each drilled on the tarmac, senior members took care of processing new members (four or five, last night) and gave tours to prospective members. Each cadet flight had an NCO advisor working with them,"

Unless you're saying that each flight of 20 was its own 'gathering' on a meeting night? That's not how a properly sanctioned CAP meeting works.

~9907
21 yrs of service

Our Members Code of Conduct can be found here:   http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=13.0

SarDragon

Are we done with the "measuring" contest yet?
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

JohhnyD

Quote from: SarDragon on September 03, 2020, 04:07:00 amAre we done with the "measuring" contest yet?
Odd stuff, indeed. We are having success and that seems to bother people.

Capt Thompson

In fairness, we've had multiple meetings on the same night at different locations to allow more Cadets to participate in-person. Even though we're in Phase II now, the State still restricts indoor activities to 10 or less so we still utilize the conference room at the FBO as a second indoor location, so 10 members can be in a class in our building, 10 in the FBO, and others can be out on the tarmac doing drill, pt etc. Depending on the setup, you could conceivably have multiple meetings running simultaneously.

Quote from: JohhnyD on September 03, 2020, 11:01:36 amOdd stuff, indeed. We are having success and that seems to bother people.
Nobody has a problem with the success, it's the perceived rule breaking and potentially endangering members lives that appears to be taking place to achieve said success. Unless you have multiple locations, as in my previous example, and members meet separately and don't intermingle, you can't have "3 flights of 20 cadets" at a meeting currently. 50 tops, to include all seniors, cadets, guests, guest speakers etc.

Capt Matt Thompson
Deputy Commander for Cadets, Historian, Public Affairs Officer

Mitchell - 31 OCT 98 (#44670) Earhart - 1 OCT 00 (#11401)

JohhnyD

Quote from: Capt Thompson on September 03, 2020, 12:35:38 pmNobody has a problem with the success, it's the perceived rule breaking and potentially endangering members lives that appears to be taking place to achieve said success. Unless you have multiple locations, as in my previous example, and members meet separately and don't intermingle, you can't have "3 flights of 20 cadets" at a meeting currently. 50 tops, to include all seniors, cadets, guests, guest speakers etc.
So the presumption that rules are broken is the issue? At no point was there any endangerment, at no point was their more than 20 people in one room, and since each flight was drilling on a different area of the tarmac safety was absolutely maintained.

Y'all might "presume" that rules are being respected instead of trying to play "gotcha", respect is not that hard. And it is the ethical way to approach discussions.

Jester

Quote from: JohhnyD on September 03, 2020, 01:41:21 pm
Quote from: Capt Thompson on September 03, 2020, 12:35:38 pmNobody has a problem with the success, it's the perceived rule breaking and potentially endangering members lives that appears to be taking place to achieve said success. Unless you have multiple locations, as in my previous example, and members meet separately and don't intermingle, you can't have "3 flights of 20 cadets" at a meeting currently. 50 tops, to include all seniors, cadets, guests, guest speakers etc.
So the presumption that rules are broken is the issue? At no point was there any endangerment, at no point was their more than 20 people in one room, and since each flight was drilling on a different area of the tarmac safety was absolutely maintained.

Y'all might "presume" that rules are being respected instead of trying to play "gotcha", respect is not that hard. And it is the ethical way to approach discussions.

Too many people want to be recognized as the smartest person in the room, though.

PHall


Capt Thompson

Quote from: JohhnyD on September 03, 2020, 01:41:21 pmSo the presumption that rules are broken is the issue? At no point was there any endangerment, at no point was their more than 20 people in one room, and since each flight was drilling on a different area of the tarmac safety was absolutely maintained.
I'm going to ask you to read this statement again, slowly to yourself and see if you spot the issue. You're not saying, "at no point did we break the rules," you're saying, "at no point was anyone in danger" which are two completely different statements.

My best advice would be to have your CC contact your Wing Safety Officer, and ask that individual if having 60 Cadets separated into 3 groups of 20 on the tarmac, while another group of Seniors has a business meeting, is allowed. If your Wing approves the activity, then nobody on Captalk really has anything to say about it.
Capt Matt Thompson
Deputy Commander for Cadets, Historian, Public Affairs Officer

Mitchell - 31 OCT 98 (#44670) Earhart - 1 OCT 00 (#11401)

jeders

Quote from: PHall on September 03, 2020, 02:36:30 pmDave, this one is "fork ready". ::)

Agreed.

TLDR: Covid will likely have far long lasting effects on CAP and the cadet program, but CAPTalk threads will always be...interesting.
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse