Salutations...

[Smokey]

Who dug up this dead horse??  Every time we bury this horse, who was well beaten after death, someone finds a way to bring up the subject again.  Another saluting topic that was last commented on Aug 3 2007.  Suddenly it comes to life again!


Why can't we have a thread on a non controversial subject,   say like --uniforms

[BuckeyeDEJ]

There is no prescribed distance to initiate a salute, so use common sense.  Technically it is "upon recognition," but I think that 200 feet is a little excessive.

When I was active duty, the general rule of thumb was six paces. Always seemed to work fairly well.

That has been a myth in CAP for many years.  If you look at the NHQ website and look up the myths and legends, this is covered.  It is too hard to tell how far 6 paces out are from the officer.

If you'd say hello to someone halfway across a parking lot, you'd salute someone from that distance. Been there, done that, alongside a real Air Force officer, both of us in service blues at the time, outside a MAJCOM headquarters building (I say all this to establish that it really happened). Six paces can be visualized, but while it's a nice rule, there's latitude.

[RAZOR]

Unless you are a Commissioned Officer and I do mean Commissioned, Non Commissioned Officers who wear the uniform as a duly sworn Airman or NCO are not required to salute CAP Officers nor are the NCO Corps of CAP required to salute Commissioned Officers.

[RiverAux]

nor are the NCO Corps of CAP required to salute Commissioned Officers.

CAP NCOs don't have to salute real military officers?  Thats news to me (and probably to everybody else). 

[Eclipse]

Unless you are a Commissioned Officer and I do mean Commissioned, Non Commissioned Officers who wear the uniform as a duly sworn Airman or ...

We know the rules, and that isn't what we're discussing.

No one in the compensated military is required to salute a CAP officer, however:

A) Its a courtesy regularly extended to us because we're wearing grade and few people think it through to the point of drawing a line. (Not to mention the general level of respect most in the compensated military have for CAP members who are there on their own nickel)

B) Advising compensated military recruits to not salute anyone wearing some sort of military officer grade, especially on a military base, puts the recruits at risk of filtering at the wrong time.

NCO are not required to salute CAP Officers nor are the NCO Corps of CAP required to salute Commissioned Officers.

The fact that there is no such thing as the "NCO Corps of CAP" notwithstanding, you better darn-skippy believe that everyone in CAP better be whipping salutes to compensated military officers when appropriate.  CAP Members who have chosen to display their NCO grade from some other service are in no way exempt, ever, and to tell them so puts them at risk, because at some point both the CAP member and compensated officer are in the regular military and sure as heck know the rules.

[Gunner C]

Throwing commissions into the mix is silly.  An Army WO1 is not commissioned.  But any E9 or below had best salute that officer.  Army reserve CWO 2s (either active or inactive) are commissioned by the Secretary of the Army.  You'd better salute them, too, if your an E9 or below.  Regular Army CWO 3s and above are commissioned by the president.

Now explain how an officer without a commission rates a salute?  It is by regulation and custom.  CAP officers are a different animal, but the commission thing is a red herring.

Gunner

[winterg]

We are discussing courtesies here.  Not customs.  And Miriam Webster defines courtesies as:  General allowance despite facts, consideration, cooperation, and generosity in providing something (as a gift or privilege)used chiefly in the phrases through the courtesy of or by courtesy of or sometimes simply courtesy of

With that in mind, a salute is a courtesy.  A measure of respect.  It has nothing to do, and never did, with any form of college or government sanctioning.  It is merely a way for individuals who are going out of their way to serve their society at large (regardless of pay) to recognize one another.

I apologize in advance, but anyone who makes an argument not to salute another person who is doing their civic duty does not have a leg to stand on.

[Gunner C]

I apologize in advance, but anyone who makes an argument not to salute another person who is doing their civic duty does not have a leg to stand on.

:clap: :clap:

[PORed]

CAP officers are a different animal, but the commission thing is a red herring.

I though Communism was just a red herring.

[davidsinn]

CAP officers are a different animal, but the commission thing is a red herring.

I though Communism was just a red herring.

No, that would be a Soviet fish.

[PaulR]

You guys stress over the funniest stuff.

Guy asked a question, Answer it and carry on. That's it, no need for all the little side stuff about him asking a question unrelated to this.

:sigh: And I wonder why most CAP Members I mention this forum to, roll their eyes and say they can't stand the bickering.

I agree... but to be honest it can be entertaining to follow.    

[PaulR]

One thing that I have noticed is that some enlisted don't/won't salute CAP Officers under the Grade of Captain.   They did stand at a fair resemblance of Attention.  Also, military personnel are not required to salute us.  They are not prohibited from doing so, though.  That is one of the peculiarities of the CAP/Military relationship.

I know the CG Aux rank is different, but when I was in boot camp we had them walking around base. We where instructed to not salute them being they where not commisioned officers in the armed forces. But we where also told to treat them with respect as you would an officer, greeting them, and being courtious and polite when speaking to them. I have carried this over to CAP when I am in CG uniform I don't salute a CAP officer, or any Cadet organization officer being they are not commisioned. But like I said before, I still treat them with respect.

Dude... you dug to the bottom of the list to bring this back up!! LOL

[PaulR]

[If we want to get technical, we can say being CG, you are neither military nor are your Officers real Officers, unless they happen to be transfered to the Department of the Navy during wartime.  

Completely incorrect.  We are military 100%, even if not under the Navy's command.  Coast Guard members are never transferred to the Dept of the Navy.  They are simply placed under their command during combat assignments.

Regardless, the Coast Guard is a branch of the military and then some.  We are the only branch that has a combattant role and are considered to be law enforcement officials as well.  The only structural difference is that we are not run by the DOD.  We fall under the DHS.

We in the military do not salute officers from State Defense Forces(If I am wrong, please point me in the right direction with some regulations that dictate otherwise).   National Guard officers, yes, but not SDF officers.   

This thread should be locked down forever!   


Paul

[PORed]

I apologize in advance, but anyone who makes an argument not to salute another person who is doing their civic duty does not have a leg to stand on.

I am not saying be discourteous, I am saying the salute is reserved for military officers. If military enlisted where to throw up a salute to all people doing their civic service this would include all federal, state, county and city employees such as: trashmen, toll booth collectors, councilmen, landscapers. I will call them buy their title much like you would call a Doctor, "Doctor" or a Pastor, "Reverend", "Father", or "Rabbi". I am not advocating disrespect, I am just pointing out when the custom is properly used.

[tarheel gumby]

 

[winterg]

This thread should be locked down forever!   
Paul

If people want to continue to discuss the subject, regardless of the inanity, who cares as long as people are being respectful.  Doesn't seem to me like people are getting too hot under the collar about the subject.  I think the different views are interesting.  And since I didn't get in on the subject when it was fresh it's nice to be able to discuss it.

Why do I always see a hue and cry for a thread to be locked just because the topic is a "dead horse beatdown".  Not picking on you Paul, just used your quote for an example.

[Smokey]

Winter,

I think the reason it goes on and on is.....the thread often ends up with folks who come up with every conceivable idea on how to AVOID saluting someone. 

It gets so crazy that I'm expecting stuff like,  You don't salute if it's the third Thursday after a full moon in July or you don't salute if your mother nursed you for six months then switched you to formula.   

Honestly it has become that insane for those trying to find a reason not to salute.  They offer up excuse after excuse.  A salute probably takes less than a second to execute, but those who seek to avoid it at all costs will talk about it here for months!

[Ford73Diesel]

[If we want to get technical, we can say being CG, you are neither military nor are your Officers real Officers, unless they happen to be transfered to the Department of the Navy during wartime.  

Completely incorrect.  We are military 100%, even if not under the Navy's command.  Coast Guard members are never transferred to the Dept of the Navy.  They are simply placed under their command during combat assignments.

Im glad someone said it, you would be surprised how many times i've heard this in my brief time in the CG, Its at the point where i just rarely even respond because they'll find out sooner or later. I dare someone in the military to try to argue that the CG isnt military after walking past a 3 star and not saluting.


I also feel that all CAP members should salute ALL military officers, including Warrant officers as a sign of respect, regardless of if your CAP rank is "higher" than the military officer's rank.

When in CAP uniform, I salute CAP officers and military officers, when in my military uniform I salute only military, PHS, (yes i saw a PHS O-6 last week) and an NOAA officer if i saw one.

At boot camp they taught us NOT to salute CGAUX and how to distinguish between them, and there was no  issue with confusion. Some Coasties I know choose to salute CGAUX, I don't, but I offer them the same respect I offer any other civilian, I would also be offended if an Auxiliarist or CAP officer stopped me and yelled at me for not saluting when i was in my military uniform..


Matt

[Eclipse]

I also feel that all CAP members should salute ALL military officers, including Warrant officers as a sign of respect, regardless of if your CAP rank is "higher" than the military officer's rank.

That is a mis-guided idea.  Just follow the protocol like everyone else.

We're no less a service than anyone else - different, but no less.

Leave it at that and move on.

[Ford73Diesel]

Please explain how that is a misguided idea.

While i respect the service CAP does to this country, especially the cadet program, the officers of our armed forces deserve our respect. I know that when I become a senior member, i will salute all officers even if my CAP grade is higher than their RM grade because feel that a CAP officer's grade is not higher than a military officers grade. 

V/R
Matt