August 05, 2020, 04:50:43 pm

Entering Class B Airspace

Started by etodd, June 25, 2020, 03:55:39 pm

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etodd

#1 Get a Clearance
#2 Obey ATC
#3 Don't have this attitude:

MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

Eclipse

Sounds like part of the issue is that his potato needs more power or a better antenna.

Hopefully the nice people at the FAA contacted him offline and discussed his 'tude.



Dwight Dutton

Quote from: etodd on June 25, 2020, 03:55:39 pm#1 Get a Clearance
#2 Obey ATC
#3 Don't have this attitude:

I fly out of KTOA and this plane parks maybe 100ft away, I'll have to ask the guy what actually happened.  If you listen to the video all the way to the end it sounds like ATC is actually apologizing to the pilot, so there must be more to this.

etodd

Quote from: Dwight Dutton on June 25, 2020, 07:19:24 pm..... it sounds like ATC is actually apologizing to the pilot, so there must be more to this.

This is the short version of the video. There is another one that has his discussion with the ground controller, where he tells the ground guy how bad the woman controller was. Hence the ground controller telling him "I don't know what happened" .. and then just being nice.  Nope, this guy will probably get a suspension for this. He does NOT know Class B regs, refused to comply with instructions to leave Class B, and he is arrogant.  I would never want to fly with him.
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

Eclipse

That's the odd thing - it's one thing to stray in, but then to ignore the order multiple times
to get out, that's downright dangerous.



AirDX

Class C only needs contact with ATC, you stay out only if specifically instructed. Class B, though, you need a specific clearance in, otherwise stay out. This clown obviously was either confused on that point, or just flat stupid.

Years ago I worked a similar case (I used to be the guy whose phone rang when a pilot called the number they were given as part of the "possible pilot deviation" speech), and my friends in Flight Standards did an emergency revocation of his pilot's license. That's what I hope happens or happened here. What a jerk.
Believe in fate, but lean forward where fate can see you.

Dwight Dutton

What occasionally confuses people, and may be involved in this case, is that flight following lets you fly through Class C & D but does NOT cover class B.  This guy may have thought it did, which explains the initial mistake (only).

Approach will always point out that you are headed for Class B, usually by just asking how you plan to navigate through it.  If you don't have a good answer they will tell you to stay out.

Based on how it went after that he's looking at a temporary suspension at least.

TheSkyHornet

Quote from: Dwight Dutton on June 26, 2020, 10:15:52 pmApproach will always point out that you are headed for Class B, usually by just asking how you plan to navigate through it.  If you don't have a good answer they will tell you to stay out.

Or in the case of the CLE Class B, they'll almost always tell VFR traffic to remain clear. Even with a flight following, I've been vectored around it. You've got two secondary Class D airports under the rings. VFR traffic is considered a nuisance.

docsteve

Quote from: Dwight Dutton on June 26, 2020, 10:15:52 pmWhat occasionally confuses people, and may be involved in this case, is that flight following lets you fly through Class C & D but does NOT cover class B.
Just my 2 cents.

Because flight following in their vicinity of Class C would certainly be provided by the Class C facility it would provide for entearing of the Class C airspace; however, there have been incidences where the Class C controller has failed to coordinate entry into the Class D with the local controller, which becomes a violation on the pilot.  Since we have Class D (SCH) underlying our Class C (ALB) it is best for transiting aircraft to make sure of the clearance into the Class D before exiting the Class C.
Steve Sconfienza, Ph.D.
former captain

NovemberWhiskey

It's true that it's ultimately the PIC's responsibility, like everything else relating to the flight. However, it is slightly nuanced; because it is also ATC's responsibility.

ref. https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/media/atpb_october_2017.pdf

ATC is required to coordinate transit authorization when providing radar traffic advisory service to aircraft that will pass through airspace controlled by other facilities. ref. https://www.faa.gov/documentlibrary/media/order/atc.pdf page 2-1-7

audiododd

Quote from: docsteve on July 13, 2020, 01:55:26 pm
Quote from: Dwight Dutton on June 26, 2020, 10:15:52 pmWhat occasionally confuses people, and may be involved in this case, is that flight following lets you fly through Class C & D but does NOT cover class B.
Just my 2 cents.

Because flight following in their vicinity of Class C would certainly be provided by the Class C facility it would provide for entearing of the Class C airspace; however, there have been incidences where the Class C controller has failed to coordinate entry into the Class D with the local controller, which becomes a violation on the pilot.  Since we have Class D (SCH) underlying our Class C (ALB) it is best for transiting aircraft to make sure of the clearance into the Class D before exiting the Class C.
Because of a few instances like this, I always verify with the FF controller that I am good to transit Class C/D airspace.  Sometimes they get frustrated with me, but I'd rather have a controller sigh at me than to get a pilot deviation.
Dodd Martin, MSgt, CAP
MSgt, USAF (Ret.)
Squadron NCO
Safety/Comm/Admin/Personnel
TMP - MS - MRO