November 25, 2020, 07:00:37 pm

Renaming a PD Award

Started by shuman14, June 01, 2020, 07:41:45 pm

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shuman14

Since the Membership Award and Leadership Award are not named for an Aviation Pioneer or an important person in Aviation and/or CAP History, I thought maybe the time had come to give them a Name of someone to recognize the awards more properly.

I recommend Martha McSally, first female Fighter Pilot of the USAF, for the Leadership Award. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martha_McSally


I recommend John W. Raymond, first commanding general of the US Space Force, for the Membership Award.
https://www.spaceforce.mil/Biographies/Article/2040592/general-john-w-jay-raymond
Joseph J. Clune
Lieutenant Colonel, Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 - 1998, 2000 - 2003, 2005 - Present     CAP: National Patron 2013 - 2014, SMWOG 2020 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000      Active Army: 2003 - 2005                                       USCGAux: 2004 - Present

Holding Pattern

As a personal preference I'd like to see the membership ribbon based off a person that really grew the membership in CAP, and the leadership ribbon be based off a person who was a proven dedicated leader in CAP.

Let's scour our history first and THEN look outward if we can't find a suitable candidate.

SarDragon

The Leadership award was renamed a while back to the Gen Benjamin O. Davis Award.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

AdAstra

The CAP award, first presented in 2006, was named for General Benjamin O. Davis, Jr., not to be confused with his father, BGen Benjamin O, Davis, Sr.
Charles Wiest

shuman14

Quote from: SarDragon on June 01, 2020, 07:55:46 pmThe Leadership award was renamed a while back to the Gen Benjamin O. Davis Award.

I thought that was a certificate with ribbon for completing Level II Professional Development, while Leadership Award was PART of Level two but was actually awarded for completing a Technician Rating. Confused now.
Joseph J. Clune
Lieutenant Colonel, Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 - 1998, 2000 - 2003, 2005 - Present     CAP: National Patron 2013 - 2014, SMWOG 2020 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000      Active Army: 2003 - 2005                                       USCGAux: 2004 - Present

SarDragon

That is correct. The Leadership Award denotes completion of Technician rating in a PD specialty, which is one step in completing Level II. The Davis Award is given at the completion of Level II, which was previously called the Certificate of Proficiency.

I don't see a great need to rename the Leadership Award, since it is a small step in a larger award. Regardless, this is something that needs to be run up the chain of command, since it will get little traction here.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

NIN

Might I remind that Civil Air Patrol has had mixed results with naming awards after living people.

I point you to the Frank Borman Falcon Award as an example.  As Eastern Airlines was dissolving in flames under Col Borman in the 1980s, a number of CAP members questioned the wisdom of naming an award after a living person, aerospace legend or not.

Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
Wing Dude
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Nothing posted on CAPTalk should be considered policy unless otherwise stated
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2020 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

shuman14

Okay, it was just a passing thought that I threw out there. My bad.
Joseph J. Clune
Lieutenant Colonel, Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 - 1998, 2000 - 2003, 2005 - Present     CAP: National Patron 2013 - 2014, SMWOG 2020 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000      Active Army: 2003 - 2005                                       USCGAux: 2004 - Present

RiverAux

Definitely not in favor of naming anything for a living person.  Also, lets wait to see if the Space Force lasts past the next administration....

etodd

Quote from: RiverAux on June 05, 2020, 11:37:06 pmAlso, lets wait to see if the Space Force lasts past the next administration....

Resist, must resist .....
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

SarDragon

Quote from: RiverAux on June 05, 2020, 11:37:06 pmDefinitely not in favor of naming anything for a living person.  Also, lets wait to see if the Space Force lasts past the next administration....

Whyzat? There is certainly significant precedence. Eleven of the sixteen named awards were originated in the person's lifetime.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Spam

Quote from: SarDragon on June 06, 2020, 01:30:40 am
Quote from: RiverAux on June 05, 2020, 11:37:06 pmDefinitely not in favor of naming anything for a living person.  Also, lets wait to see if the Space Force lasts past the next administration....

Whyzat? There is certainly significant precedence. Eleven of the sixteen named awards were originated in the person's lifetime.

Dave, here's a couple of solid arguments:
  • You want to avoid even the appearance of impropriety/favoritism/toadying.
  • You don't want to have to remove/revise the naming, should the honoree really "step" in something dishonorable, later in life.

The former is a major reason I gave in rising in opposition when the CP shop proposed naming cadet awards after currently serving USAF officers. It would be highly inapprops to appear as if CAP Inc. were currying (ahem, Currying) favor with our customer service who funds us in that manner.

Both the former, as well as the latter reason, have been divisive causal factors in numerous political fights over naming ships and weapons systems in the past (I'm sure, since you and I share a USN past, you've heard the scuttlebutt over naming... just for reference, here's a primer on what to avoid:  https://news.usni.org/2013/04/23/twenty-six-us-navy-ship-naming-controversies

Best to head off controversy and minimize any disagreement until the assessments of settled history have been written, I say.

R/s
Spam

SarDragon

Thank you. That's a pretty solid why not.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

goblin

Quote from: NIN on June 02, 2020, 08:57:48 pmMight I remind that Civil Air Patrol has had mixed results with naming awards after living people.

I point you to the Frank Borman Falcon Award as an example.  As Eastern Airlines was dissolving in flames under Col Borman in the 1980s, a number of CAP members questioned the wisdom of naming an award after a living person, aerospace legend or not.
Chuck Yeager / Mrs Chuck Yeager threatened to sue my old squadron that was named after him unless we changed the name since we decided to stop letting them attempt to profit off of our squadron patch and coins

It is no longer named after him.


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ColonelJack

Quote from: RiverAux on June 05, 2020, 11:37:06 pmAlso, lets wait to see if the Space Force lasts past the next administration....

Since the Space Force passed the House with a vote of 377-48, and the Senate vote of 86-8, I don't think it will be going anywhere.

I could be wrong, of course.

Jack
Jack Bagley, Ed. D.
Lt. Col., CAP (now inactive)
Gill Robb Wilson Award No. 1366, 29 Nov 1991
Admiral, Great Navy of the State of Nebraska

Okayish Aviator

Quote from: ColonelJack on June 08, 2020, 09:50:46 am
Quote from: RiverAux on June 05, 2020, 11:37:06 pmAlso, lets wait to see if the Space Force lasts past the next administration....

Since the Space Force passed the House with a vote of 377-48, and the Senate vote of 86-8, I don't think it will be going anywhere.

I could be wrong, of course.

Jack

The only way we'd see something like that go away was if the capability was no longer needed. Looking at what they do (and living over here where they do it) I will tell you that the capability isn't going anywhere, and if anything will be more needed in the decades to come. As such, US Space Force isn't going to disband.

Also, I can't think of anywhere in the world where a modern military has disbanded an entire branch.
Always give 100%, unless you're giving blood.


GroundHawg

I just read an article (on here I think) about an active CAP member since 1941. Her membership number is like 7? I think if we are naming the membership award, some of the OG members from CAP would be a good place to start.

Spam

The US Continental Army, Navy and Marines were, in fact, disbanded after the American revolution ended in the Treaty of Paris in 1783. President Adams signed the bill reestablishing them years later, when it was realized that the world was in fact a dangerous place.

In modern times, a couple of examples... Haiti disbanded their Armed Forces completely (the FAdH) in 1995, but reconstituted them starting in 2017 to assist with natural disaster relief, border security, and fighting crime. New Zealand did away with the air combat capability of the RNZAF about 20 years ago when they retired all their fighters (they do transport and ASW only, now), so thats as close as springs to mind...

As far as combatant commands (such as SOCOM, Cyber Command, AFRICOM, STRATCOM (nukes), etc.), we used to have USSPACECOM, established in 1985, I think. It went away in 2001 or so when our national focus drew inward, onto terrorism and wars in Asia, rather than outward into space.

V/r
Spam

MSG Mac

June 08, 2020, 10:15:09 pm #18 Last Edit: June 08, 2020, 10:18:32 pm by MSG Mac
Getting back on subject. If CAP renames Awards and achievements, they should be named after CAP Members
Suggestions:
 Col Louisa Morse. DEWG Commander and CAP Historian
BG D. Harold Byrd, Second Chairman of the CAP Board
BG Earle Johnson. Successor to MG Curry and commanded CAP for the majority of WW II.
 BG Warren Barry. First former Cadet to become National Commander

Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
50 Year Member

arajca

I think BG Warren Barry would be a good name for a Cadet Programs award, say for Ach 16, just before the Eaker. No way you can say it's not related to the Cadet Program.