August 13, 2020, 11:44:38 pm

ABU Wing Patches

Started by 8014410, May 02, 2020, 11:57:34 pm

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8014410

My wing is currently switching patches and we currently don't know what thy look like. They said they needed to change to patch to make it go with USAF standards. Is the standard the AF shape patch. Also I did not want to buy a patch on vanguard that would be phased out so I just put a US CAP patch on my uniform, is that allowed on it. I read on 39-1 that you could be a national patch, so idk if I can wear that patch. Sorry for my bad grammar.

PHall

The "US CAP Patch" is the wing patch for the Overseas Squadrons.
Are you in Germany, the UK, Italy, Japan or South Korea?
If not, then you're wearing the wrong patch and you need to remove it.

8014410

It is but wouldn't it be a national patch and it is allowed to wear a national patch on the left sleeve. If not what is the national patch that I can wear?
Here is the regulation...
. Left Sleeve. One full color, wing/region/national patch may be
sewn to the coat on the left sleeve ½ inch below the shoulder seam[/b
]

arajca

If your wing is in the process of redesigning the wing patch, there will be a phase in period when both the old and new are authorized.

Also, unless your wing commander has published a directive otherwise, the wing patch is optional. Therefore, you do not have to wear it. Some wings have mandated it, some have banned it. Most, I think, have said either.

If your assigned to National HQ, you'd wear that patch in place of a wing patch. Same for Region. There isn't a generic national patch you can wear.

8014410

My unit commander wants for us to have a patch on the left sleeve.

Eclipse

For better or worse your Unit CC does not have the authority to mandate something that is optional by a naitonal regulation.



8014410

I know, but i just don't want to correct him because he has got upset for people correcting him in the past.

Eclipse

Well, that's unfortunate, and as a new cadet you need to pick you battles.

So either get the correct wing patch and move on, or remove the incorrect one
and move on.



8014410

Ok, good to know before I look like an idiot wearing the wrong patch. Thanks for your help!

shuman14

Correct me if I'm wrong here but I thought CAP policy was that if something was mandated for a Cadet, but normally would be optional for wear, then the local unit would have to provide it?

If a CC is mandating a shoulder patch for the Cadets, the he should provide the cadets with the patch he/she wants them to mandatorily wear.
Joseph J. Clune
Lieutenant Colonel, Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 - 1998, 2000 - 2003, 2005 - Present     CAP: National Patron 2013 - 2014, SMWOG 2020 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000      Active Army: 2003 - 2005                                       USCGAux: 2004 - Present

SarDragon

Never heard of it as a "word of mouth" thing, nor as written policy.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

shuman14

Quote from: SarDragon on May 04, 2020, 03:01:52 pmNever heard of it as a "word of mouth" thing, nor as written policy.

Ok, I guess I was misinformed.
Joseph J. Clune
Lieutenant Colonel, Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 - 1998, 2000 - 2003, 2005 - Present     CAP: National Patron 2013 - 2014, SMWOG 2020 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000      Active Army: 2003 - 2005                                       USCGAux: 2004 - Present

jeders

Quote from: SarDragon on May 04, 2020, 03:01:52 pmNever heard of it as a "word of mouth" thing, nor as written policy.

It absolutely is written policy that making the wear of optional uniform items by cadets has to either be voluntary or at no cost; CAPR 39-1, 1.2.1.
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

arajca

Reference:

Quote from: CAPR 39-11.2.1.Individual members will obtain and maintain for weareither of the minimum basic uniforms described  here.  These  combinations  meet  the  requirements  of  most  CAP  events.  A  commander  may require cadets to wear other optional uniform items only if the purchase is voluntary (such as requiring a specific uniform  for  participation  in  a  National  Cadet  Special  Activity)  or  if  the  uniform  is  supplied without expense to the cadet.

emphasis mine

This happens to be one of the most ignored rules. 

SarDragon

I sit corrected.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

THRAWN

Quote from: arajca on May 04, 2020, 04:15:30 pmReference:

Quote from: CAPR 39-11.2.1.Individual members will obtain and maintain for weareither of the minimum basic uniforms described  here.  These  combinations  meet  the  requirements  of  most  CAP  events.  A  commander  may require cadets to wear other optional uniform items only if the purchase is voluntary (such as requiring a specific uniform  for  participation  in  a  National  Cadet  Special  Activity)  or  if  the  uniform  is  supplied without expense to the cadet.

emphasis mine

This happens to be one of the most ignored rules. 

This was discussed a lot, here, when the 39-1 was undergoing it's rewrite a few years back. And it's still ignored...
Strup
"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016

shuman14

Quote from: THRAWN on May 04, 2020, 05:13:44 pmThis was discussed a lot, here, when the 39-1 was undergoing it's rewrite a few years back. And it's still ignored...

I could have sworn I remember reading that before.
Joseph J. Clune
Lieutenant Colonel, Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 - 1998, 2000 - 2003, 2005 - Present     CAP: National Patron 2013 - 2014, SMWOG 2020 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000      Active Army: 2003 - 2005                                       USCGAux: 2004 - Present

Eclipse

Quote from: THRAWN on May 04, 2020, 05:13:44 pmThis was discussed a lot, here, when the 39-1 was undergoing it's rewrite a few years back. And it's still ignored...

That tenant goes back to before my time in CAP (99), and it's something I've
brought up a number of times to NHQ to crickets and inconvenient truths.

Mainly, "How do we require field uniforms, etc., for cadets if they are not issued?"

The answers usually circle around the fact that at least technically all the mandated
activities for advancement could be achieved in blues, and that "thankfully most cadets
can work this out by encampment..." which really ignores the bigger question about the mandate.

(The fact that NHQ now has a program to provide first-year students with need most of an ABU
doesn't change the actual issue around the reg or the dichotomy...")



Toad1168

Here in Missouri Wing, we are currently updating the patch and are awaiting approval.  In Missouri, it IS OPTIONAL for wear. 

Unit commanders really need to follow the direction from higher headquarters........
Toad

JC004

This is the "NATIONAL" tab (there also used to be a "NATIONAL STAFF" one).  They are for people assigned to National; not everybody in CAP.  Just as region patches are for people assigned to the respective reason, not everyone in the wings below that region. 

https://www.vanguardmil.com/products/national-civil-air-patrol-arch-patch-color-grey