October 22, 2020, 12:55:10 pm

CAP Planes Flying Again

Started by etodd, April 22, 2020, 03:36:13 pm

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etodd

CAP National Commander has authorized us to fly all planes once a week, with solo pilot, to help preserve the engines. A12 sortie of 1.5 to 2.0 hours in duration to be flown per aircraft each week until we return to normal operations. Be sure and disinfect the cockpit before and after each flight.

Fantastic. Planes should never sit this long. :)
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

NIN

Quote from: etodd on April 22, 2020, 03:36:13 pmFantastic. Planes should never sit this long. :)

Exactly how long have they sat?
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
Wing Dude
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Nothing posted on CAPTalk should be considered policy unless otherwise stated
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jeders

Quote from: NIN on April 22, 2020, 06:24:57 pm
Quote from: etodd on April 22, 2020, 03:36:13 pmFantastic. Planes should never sit this long. :)

Exactly how long have they sat?

In our case, the CAP plane has been sitting for about a month. I would go fly today, but we have a 20+ kt direct cross wind. This normally wouldn't be a problem, but the alternate runway is currently being used to store a bunch of American regional jets.
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

PHall

Quote from: jeders on April 22, 2020, 06:51:46 pm
Quote from: NIN on April 22, 2020, 06:24:57 pm
Quote from: etodd on April 22, 2020, 03:36:13 pmFantastic. Planes should never sit this long. :)

Exactly how long have they sat?

In our case, the CAP plane has been sitting for about a month. I would go fly today, but we have a 20+ kt direct cross wind. This normally wouldn't be a problem, but the alternate runway is currently being used to store a bunch of American regional jets.

And what's the crosswind limit in the aircraft POM?

jeders

If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

TheSkyHornet

Quote from: jeders on April 23, 2020, 01:06:35 am
Quote from: PHall on April 22, 2020, 08:18:25 pmAnd what's the crosswind limit in the aircraft POM?

15

Is that a limitation or the demonstrated wind velocity?


Paul Creed III

Lt Col Paul Creed III, CAP
National Headquarters Cyber Curriculum Specialist
National Headquarters Photography Working Group
Instructor, Volunteer University
Akron-Canton Senior Flying Squadron Commander

Eclipse

^ That was my understanding as well.  I didn't understand why this was even a question
as anything involving planning or releases I've ever done has had a hard cap of 15kts.



UWONGO2

Quote from: NIN on April 22, 2020, 06:24:57 pm
Quote from: etodd on April 22, 2020, 03:36:13 pmFantastic. Planes should never sit this long. :)

Exactly how long have they sat?

We were told that essential flying included maintaining proficiency to ensure we could respond to missions in a timely manner, so I don't think any of our planes sat for very long.

Eclipse

When were you told that as that would seem to conflict with the NHQ directives in place?

FWIW I haven't seen anything come from an authoritative source that it's changed, either.
The most recent NHQ communique is about "Hope".



BJD

Quote from: Eclipse on April 23, 2020, 04:35:27 pmWhen were you told that as that would seem to conflict with the NHQ directives in place?

FWIW I haven't seen anything come from an authoritative source that it's changed, either.
The most recent NHQ communique is about "Hope".

It was a 21 APR memo from Gen Smith to Region and Wing CCs.  You can ask your Commander for the details if it hasn't been distributed in your wing yet.

BJD

Quote from: TheSkyHornet on April 23, 2020, 01:38:23 pm
Quote from: jeders on April 23, 2020, 01:06:35 am
Quote from: PHall on April 22, 2020, 08:18:25 pmAnd what's the crosswind limit in the aircraft POM?

15

Is that a limitation or the demonstrated wind velocity?



Maximum allowable crosswind is covered in CAPR 70-1 at 9.11.7.5.1  Demonstrated crosswind from the POH is the required limitation.

TheSkyHornet

Quote from: BJD on April 23, 2020, 05:20:04 pm
Quote from: TheSkyHornet on April 23, 2020, 01:38:23 pm
Quote from: jeders on April 23, 2020, 01:06:35 am
Quote from: PHall on April 22, 2020, 08:18:25 pmAnd what's the crosswind limit in the aircraft POM?

15

Is that a limitation or the demonstrated wind velocity?



Maximum allowable crosswind is covered in CAPR 70-1 at 9.11.7.5.1  Demonstrated crosswind from the POH is the required limitation.


Works for me.

Just a curiosity.

baronet68

Quote from: BJD on April 23, 2020, 05:20:04 pm
Quote from: TheSkyHornet on April 23, 2020, 01:38:23 pm
Quote from: jeders on April 23, 2020, 01:06:35 am
Quote from: PHall on April 22, 2020, 08:18:25 pmAnd what's the crosswind limit in the aircraft POM?

15

Is that a limitation or the demonstrated wind velocity?



Maximum allowable crosswind is covered in CAPR 70-1 at 9.11.7.5.1  Demonstrated crosswind from the POH is the required limitation.


Fun note is that (long ago) CAP flew a few Ercoupes... they have a crosswind limit of 25 without rudder pedals and 15 with rudder pedals.
Michael Moore, Maj, CAP
National Recruiting & Retention Manager

Phil Hirons, Jr.


etodd

Quote from: BJD on April 23, 2020, 05:12:16 pm
Quote from: Eclipse on April 23, 2020, 04:35:27 pmWhen were you told that as that would seem to conflict with the NHQ directives in place?

FWIW I haven't seen anything come from an authoritative source that it's changed, either.
The most recent NHQ communique is about "Hope".

It was a 21 APR memo from Gen Smith to Region and Wing CCs.  You can ask your Commander for the details if it hasn't been distributed in your wing yet.

Yes, then passed on to our Wing DO, who sent it to all the MPs. Mission Number for A12s all set, and sorties being entered.  Just once a week for now, but if the pilots take turns that will give a lot of pilots a chance to fly in the next few weeks. Disinfect before and after please. :)
 
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

Eclipse

I'm sure all the people you'll be putting at risk are just as excited about this as you are.



JohhnyD

Quote from: Eclipse on April 23, 2020, 11:54:26 pmI'm sure all the people you'll be putting at risk are just as excited about this as you are.
Who are those people? How many pilots have died after being exposed in a sanitized C1X2?

etodd

Quote from: Eclipse on April 23, 2020, 11:54:26 pmI'm sure all the people you'll be putting at risk are just as excited about this as you are.

You must have missed the solo part. Our hangar is across the airport from the FBO. I'll stand a hundred feet away when the fuel truck comes by.  Other than that guy, I'll not see anyone.

MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

Eclipse

Is this aircraft in the members private hangar?

If not, then the respective member will need to break stay-at-home directives in order to get there,
for what is clearly a non-essential activity, putting every point of contact
between him and the plane at risk, including the pilot as well.

A risk that is unnecessary, and made worse with the reality that a significant percentage
of the CAP pilot population have other health issues that exacerbate C19 to the point of fatality.

If the issue is the mission capability of the aircraft (because apparently airplanes can't sit
unused, even though they sit unused all over the place the rest of the time), then the nearest
pilot to the plane should be the designated cranker, and approved for enough of a pattern ride
to circulate the oil, and nothing more.

We've already discussed that there is no currency issue (for the pilots) in regards to missions that can't be
remediated with pre-mission cobweb flights, so that's not a justification for the risk.



NIN

Bob, you're not an aviation expert, and it shows.
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
Wing Dude
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
Nothing posted on CAPTalk should be considered policy unless otherwise stated
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2020 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

etodd

Quote from: Eclipse on April 24, 2020, 01:09:32 amIs this aircraft in the members private hangar?

If not, then the respective member will need to break stay-at-home directives in order to get there,
for what is clearly a non-essential activity, putting every point of contact
between him and the plane at risk, including the pilot as well.

A risk that is unnecessary, and made worse with the reality that a significant percentage
of the CAP pilot population have other health issues that exacerbate C19 to the point of fatality.

If the issue is the mission capability of the aircraft (because apparently airplanes can't sit
unused, even though they sit unused all over the place the rest of the time), then the nearest
pilot to the plane should be the designated cranker, and approved for enough of a pattern ride
to circulate the oil, and nothing more.

We've already discussed that there is no currency issue (for the pilots) in regards to missions that can't be
remediated with pre-mission cobweb flights, so that's not a justification for the risk.

Geez.  You obviously haven't seen 21 APR memo from Gen Smith to Region and Wing CCs.  You can ask your Commander for the details if it hasn't been distributed in your wing yet.

We are being ORDERED by Headquarters to fly the planes weekly.  Stop fussing at me and call Headquarters. Lawd have mercy!  LOL

.
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

Eclipse

Quote from: etodd on April 24, 2020, 01:38:06 amWe are being ORDERED by Headquarters to fly the planes weekly.

That, is actually hilarious.
 
An organization that can't even compel its members to wear uniforms properly or show up to meetings
is "ordering" them to do something during a pandemic when the civil authorities are telling people
to stay home, and that's going to be the justification for the risk.



Eclipse

Quote from: NIN on April 24, 2020, 01:18:14 amBob, you're not an aviation expert, and it shows.

At the core, it's not an "aviation" conversation, per se, it's an ORM conversation.

As I said, if the pistons are going to lock up because they haven't had oil running
through them, fair enough, the nearest guys runs them up and flies the pattern for the minimum
amount of time, and the minimum amount of sorties - have a Zoom call with Cessna to get
their advice on the matter.

It should not be taken as a carte blanche justification to "touch the sky" by anybody in CAP
who is getting antsy, and it absolutely will.



jeders

Planes need to fly, pilots need currency. A single pilot driving from his home to the airport, pulling the plane out, flying it for an hour or so, fueling it, putting it away, and driving home all without ever seeing, let along coming into contact with, another human being is literally the lowest exposure risk in CAP.

And with that, I think this one is done. Say goodnight Gracie.
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

SarDragon

Dave Bowles
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AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
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