Trying to see the good side of CAP after only a few months in

Started by 11mike, February 19, 2020, 02:22:10 am

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Майор Хаткевич

And on that subject if the critique of the first unit was their "suicide prevention" plans,that may have coincided with the NatHQ push on that front as well?

vorteks

Quote from: catrulz on February 19, 2020, 09:21:43 pmI'm a former 11B, high speed, low drag.  It really intimidates some people.

Ive worked with ppl like that both in and out of CAP. Never felt intimidated, just annoyed if anything negative at all.  >:D

11mike

Quote from: Майор Хаткевич on February 19, 2020, 09:40:48 pmAnd on that subject, if the critique of the first unit was their "suicide prevention" plans, that may have coincided with the NatHQ push on that front as well?

May have, my son was really new, maybe a month in.  They came out to us and told us about the training and said that it will contain some graphic details and it was required.  Like I said my wife did a lot of work in the mental health field up to including writing treatment plans for kids to teens that had suicide issues and she has an issue with it being taught by someone that isn't qualified as a medical professional.  So that was the end of that unit and we found this one that is closer to us, which didn't have this training.  Another note the commander from the other unit seemed to come and try to help this unit get squared away but was chased off.

Eclipse

Quote from: 11mike on February 19, 2020, 10:04:54 pm
Quote from: Майор Хаткевич on February 19, 2020, 09:40:48 pmAnd on that subject, if the critique of the first unit was their "suicide prevention" plans, that may have coincided with the NatHQ push on that front as well?

May have, my son was really new, maybe a month in.  They came out to us and told us about the training and said that it will contain some graphic details and it was required.

As a point of information, it's required to present it, it's not required to participate.

Many members both here and in other arenas have expressed similar feelings about this issue.



11mike

I'd like to thank Catrulz for his suggestion via PM, while I don't want to share my cards just yet.  I will say that I'm going to try and make this work and I'm going to try Catrulz suggestion.  I greatly appreciated everyone's feedback on this matter.  I'll let you all know how it works out.

Fester

Quote from: Майор Хаткевич on February 19, 2020, 09:40:48 pmAnd on that subject if the critique of the first unit was their "suicide prevention" plans,that may have coincided with the NatHQ push on that front as well?

In his original post about the suicide prevention, he mentioned that Unit 1 was bringing in "suicide survivors."  I don't recall that being part of the NHQ required training.
1stLt, CAP
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catrulz

Quote from: vorteks on February 19, 2020, 09:46:03 pm
Quote from: catrulz on February 19, 2020, 09:21:43 pmI'm a former 11B, high speed, low drag.  It really intimidates some people.

Ive worked with ppl like that both in and out of CAP. Never felt intimidated, just annoyed if anything negative at all.  >:D

I have always gotten along with everyone.  I had one squadron commander similar to 11mike's.  Wasn't inviting me to meetings, pretty much didn't want too much to do with me.  Hindered me on attempting to accomplish everything.  The one big difference is, he did assign me staff work, and I researched and accomplished it.  I have generally worked well with non-prior service and prior service people.  As a former cadet, I knew what the program was.  He thought I would burn out or get frustrated and quit.

catrulz

@11mike,

Good luck brother.  Keep me informed, just interested in this case how things turn out.  CAP is an excellent program for everyone in the family.  Sometimes it's hard to find your niche. 

NIN

I have a friend in 11Mike's AO.  Currently serving Guard officer, was a squadron commander in that area some years back, but left CAP while he had some other things going on (like a deployment to Afghanistan) and his unit was deactivated by the time he came back. Circa 2016 or so wanted to get back in and went to that first unit 11Mike mentioned.

The squadron commander was interested in an experienced CAP guy, current military officer, etc. My friend has a LOT of cadet training experience and he's pretty very successful at it.  Apparently the CP at the unit at the time was a little... uneven.  So he said to the commander "hey, this is a thing I'm good at.." and the commander was like "Sweet, work with our DCC on this. You can be our Leadership Officer." (I should mention: my friend is also not the most..subtle..guy on the planet)

Well, the DCC was having none of that. Mostly because he felt threatened by the "new guy" with the background and creds (that the DCC did not have) and different ideas.

My friend had turned in his CAPF 12 and fingerprints, very dutifully indicated on the form that he's had a minor NJP 35 years prior when he was a young enlisted troop and provided all the details, and that was that. The unit "declined" his membership, ostensibly based on the NJP. (which had not previously been a problem for membership for my friend when he was a member in the 1990s up thru 2009 or so)  Doubtful it was the "unit," more like "that one guy."

He's in CAP today, but not in that area. CAP (HQ) didn't have a problem with his background. Only that unit did.

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Holding Pattern

Quote from: NIN on February 20, 2020, 02:07:32 pmI have a friend in 11Mike's AO.  Currently serving Guard officer, was a squadron commander in that area some years back, but left CAP while he had some other things going on (like a deployment to Afghanistan) and his unit was deactivated by the time he came back. Circa 2016 or so wanted to get back in and went to that first unit 11Mike mentioned.

The squadron commander was interested in an experienced CAP guy, current military officer, etc. My friend has a LOT of cadet training experience and he's pretty very successful at it.  Apparently the CP at the unit at the time was a little... uneven.  So he said to the commander "hey, this is a thing I'm good at.." and the commander was like "Sweet, work with our DCC on this. You can be our Leadership Officer." (I should mention: my friend is also not the most..subtle..guy on the planet)

Well, the DCC was having none of that. Mostly because he felt threatened by the "new guy" with the background and creds (that the DCC did not have) and different ideas.

My friend had turned in his CAPF 12 and fingerprints, very dutifully indicated on the form that he's had a minor NJP 35 years prior when he was a young enlisted troop and provided all the details, and that was that. The unit "declined" his membership, ostensibly based on the NJP. (which had not previously been a problem for membership for my friend when he was a member in the 1990s up thru 2009 or so)  Doubtful it was the "unit," more like "that one guy."

He's in CAP today, but not in that area. CAP (HQ) didn't have a problem with his background. Only that unit did.



In a rational world, that unit would have a "conversation" from above when there is a pattern of behavior that isn't helping move CAP forward, but only backwards.

Eclipse

Quote from: Fester on February 20, 2020, 05:58:11 am
Quote from: Майор Хаткевич on February 19, 2020, 09:40:48 pmAnd on that subject if the critique of the first unit was their "suicide prevention" plans,that may have coincided with the NatHQ push on that front as well?

In his original post about the suicide prevention, he mentioned that Unit 1 was bringing in "suicide survivors."  I don't recall that being part of the NHQ required training.

It wasn't, and that sort of "local embellishment" was one of the concerns many people raised.



Майор Хаткевич

Quote from: Eclipse on February 20, 2020, 06:12:04 pm
Quote from: Fester on February 20, 2020, 05:58:11 am
Quote from: Майор Хаткевич on February 19, 2020, 09:40:48 pmAnd on that subject if the critique of the first unit was their "suicide prevention" plans,that may have coincided with the NatHQ push on that front as well?

In his original post about the suicide prevention, he mentioned that Unit 1 was bringing in "suicide survivors."  I don't recall that being part of the NHQ required training.

It wasn't, and that sort of "local embellishment" was one of the concerns many people raised.
Absolutely. If we wanted to hear about those perspectives, why ask someone who may have come to/tried to cross that line? Lets just read some power points and checkbox it, and call it a day! 

Getting into the subject was stupid to begin with, but hell, I don't blame a unit for thinking outside the box on addressing it interactively, vs the materials presented at the time. Plus, as stated, it was ultimately something that cadets could avoid if parents/they wanted to.

Eclipse

Quote from: Майор Хаткевич on February 20, 2020, 08:16:36 pmAbsolutely. If we wanted to hear about those perspectives, why ask someone who may have come to/tried to cross that line?
If you present the material as provided by NHQ, they will protect you in the event something goes sideways,
not to mention that whatever it is that the person may, or may not say has not been vetted for anyone
for appropriateness or common sense.

Thinking outside the box in situations like this is where the problems start.




TheSkyHornet

Quote from: Eclipse on February 20, 2020, 08:36:26 pm
Quote from: Майор Хаткевич on February 20, 2020, 08:16:36 pmAbsolutely. If we wanted to hear about those perspectives, why ask someone who may have come to/tried to cross that line?
If you present the material as provided by NHQ, they will protect you in the event something goes sideways,
not to mention that whatever it is that the person may, or may not say has not been vetted for anyone
for appropriateness or common sense.

Thinking outside the box in situations like this is where the problems start.

Agreed.

This is definitely a CYA moment. Productive? Debatable. But as far as individual liability goes, don't go off the reservation. Stay within the realm of the content.

Brit_in_CAP

Quote from: TheSkyHornet on February 20, 2020, 08:42:16 pmAgreed.

This is definitely a CYA moment. Productive? Debatable. But as far as individual liability goes, don't go off the reservation. Stay within the realm of the content.


As one who had to present the material, with a SM colleague, I wholeheartedly agree with TheSkyHornet on this one.  Stay in the reservation, stay on time and don't embellish.  Done.