August 13, 2020, 11:40:17 pm

US Army Combat Action Badge

Started by TopJack, January 27, 2020, 04:32:07 pm

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arajca

Or five, if you have a command badge.

tjhumphries

Quote from: GroundHawg on January 27, 2020, 06:56:36 pmJump Wings are considered an aeronautical rating and will take precedence over all others so you would wear them above your AA badge or CAB, and below any CAP aeronautical wings.

GroundHawg, have you ever seen an Air Force regulation classifying jump wings as an aeronautical rating? I wore jump wings as a young Air Force Officer, and I'd hear people say that from time to time, but I never saw it in writing. They certainly weren't mandatory like aeronautical ratings and because jump wings don't qualify you to do anything on an air crew it wouldn't make much sense.
Tim Humphries
Major, Armor
United States Army
Spaatz 1478
IACE Norway 2001

tjhumphries

Quote from: GroundHawg on January 27, 2020, 06:56:36 pmAlso, any foreign awards are worn AFTER CAP awards so if you have MFO, NATO, UN, etc.. they go on last.

I hope 39-1 was revised to clarify this. In the last version I saw, it literally contradicted itself, listing foreign awards above CAP awards in one part of the manual and below them in another part of the manual.

You're absolutely right of course, CAP awards originate from the United States and should be worn ABOVE awards from foreign countries. I certainly plan to wear my NATO medal below my CAP awards.
Tim Humphries
Major, Armor
United States Army
Spaatz 1478
IACE Norway 2001

NIN

That wear pattern (foreign awards below CAP awards) has been that way since I've been in CAP.

The manual is written and reviewed by people, and even after multiple eyeballs on text, they still miss some things like inconsistencies. It happens.  There is a practical limit to the number of changes you can make to that particular manual regulation due to the review process. It works fine for most regs, not so fine for that one. I had a nice chat with Colonel O'Neil at the Winter Command Council meeting in February (right before the reg dropped publicly) and the iterative nature of reviews to changes and corrections, even simple typographic or formatting changes, just adds months to the process. 

Sometimes we just have to use a little sense to divine the commander's intent.  If foreign awards have been worn after CAP awards previously and basically forever, then the reg comes out and one place says "after" and the other says "before," you're probably safe not running right out and switching up your ribbon rack to conform to the "out of family" (to borrow a NASA/aerospace engineering term) method.

Its like when ABUs were first authorized: the wear instructions for cloth grade and badges did not directly specify the long-standing "max 1/8" blue cloth showing" rule for ABUs. A number of people immediately assumed that, unlike BDUs, ABU insignia was meant to be folded and sewn in a completely different fashion than BDUs.

(I didn't help that our partners at Vanguard started selling the ABU grade insignia as individual squares with merrowed borders, leading some inexperienced folks to assume "Oooh, just sew it right on like a patch.. me likely!")



It took a little bit to convince people that we weren't going to suddenly veer wildly from a long standing rule (and wildly away from the insignia wear pattern of our parent service) just because "max 1/8" blue cloth showing" didn't make its way in to the wear instructions.



Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
Wing Dude
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shuman14

Quote from: tjhumphries on April 25, 2020, 07:25:44 am
Quote from: GroundHawg on January 27, 2020, 06:56:36 pmAlso, any foreign awards are worn AFTER CAP awards so if you have MFO, NATO, UN, etc.. they go on last.

I hope 39-1 was revised to clarify this. In the last version I saw, it literally contradicted itself, listing foreign awards above CAP awards in one part of the manual and below them in another part of the manual.

You're absolutely right of course, CAP awards originate from the United States and should be worn ABOVE awards from foreign countries. I certainly plan to wear my NATO medal below my CAP awards.

I always found this strange, that we can wear Foreign decorations all the time but you can't wear any one of our own State's Awards when on Title 10.

A silly rule I wish the Armed Forces, CAP and USCGAux would all do away with.
Joseph J. Clune
Lieutenant Colonel, Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 - 1998, 2000 - 2003, 2005 - Present     CAP: National Patron 2013 - 2014, SMWOG 2020 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000      Active Army: 2003 - 2005                                       USCGAux: 2004 - Present

tjhumphries

NIN, excellent points Sir.

I looked at the brand new CAPM 39-1 yesterday and I was impressed! What a professional document and what a tremendous improvement over the late '90s version I'm used to. The illustrations look great, and the guidance is very clear. I'm a fan.

The order of precedence for foreign awards is very clearly stated in the new manual and it doesn't contradict itself.
Tim Humphries
Major, Armor
United States Army
Spaatz 1478
IACE Norway 2001

PHall

It's the CAPR 39-1 now too.  Only took 50 plus years to get it "right".

GroundHawg

Quote from: tjhumphries on April 25, 2020, 07:22:19 am
Quote from: GroundHawg on January 27, 2020, 06:56:36 pmJump Wings are considered an aeronautical rating and will take precedence over all others so you would wear them above your AA badge or CAB, and below any CAP aeronautical wings.

GroundHawg, have you ever seen an Air Force regulation classifying jump wings as an aeronautical rating? I wore jump wings as a young Air Force Officer, and I'd hear people say that from time to time, but I never saw it in writing. They certainly weren't mandatory like aeronautical ratings and because jump wings don't qualify you to do anything on an air crew it wouldn't make much sense.

Technically parachute or MFF are not aeronautical ratings, but, the badges are issued with aeronautical orders/memos and listed alongside aeronautical badges in the uniform manual.

They fall under AFI11-402 7.7. Publishing Aeronautical Orders for Parachutists

and then:

Then under AFI36-2903 9.1.2.,  "Aeronautical, space, cyberspace and missile operations badges are equal in precedence.
When awarded the aeronautical, space, missile operations, and cyberspace badges, wear the
badge that reflects current job or billet in the highest position. Parachutist wings are optional;
however, when worn will be placed above an occupational badge or below a chaplain,
aeronautical, space, or cyberspace badge. All other occupational badges are optional.



SarDragon

Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret