February 28, 2020, 02:01:10 pm

Pilot O-ride ribbon?

Started by cfstone3, December 18, 2019, 11:05:41 pm

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cfstone3

Is it 50 cadets flown or 50 sorties?     

Eclipse




mdickinson

December 18, 2019, 11:41:51 pm #2 Last Edit: December 18, 2019, 11:46:48 pm by mdickinson
Here is the wording from CAPR39-3 paragraph 21.h:
Quoteh. Cadet Orientation Pilot Ribbon. Awarded to members who provide 50 cadet orientation
flights. Each cadet receiving credit for the flight, may be counted toward the total of 50. A bronze
clasp may be added for each additional 50 flights.


So I would answer your question "Neither. It's 50 cadet sorties flown (1 point for "each cadet receiving credit for the flight")."
That is, it's not strictly "number of cadets flown," since several of those 50 sorties may have been additional sorties for the same cadet. For instance, if a pilot flies ten cadets for five sorties each, that counts as 50.

See also this thread,
where the discussion gets into "what does paragraph h mean... does taking three cadets up for a COF count as three toward the required 50, or only as one?" (I don't know the answer to that - hopefully someone has queried national HQ and gotten clarification, and will comment below)

Eclipse

It clearly says every cadet getting credit counts.

A full plane doing a 3 airport orbit would count for
three points per sortie. 1 right seat and 2 99s. So a pilot doing that typical 3 airport bounce would get 9 points.



etodd

Is that in a report somewhere? I've never thought of keeping a list myself of how many I've flown. I doubt I'm 50 yet, maybe 35-40ish 🤷🏻‍♂️
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

Holding Pattern

Quote from: etodd on December 19, 2019, 02:07:41 am
Is that in a report somewhere? I've never thought of keeping a list myself of how many I've flown. I doubt I'm 50 yet, maybe 35-40ish 🤷🏻‍♂️


I've stitched it together for the pilots under my command as follows:

NOTE: You can only run these reports for yourself unless you are in a command slot or have been given further WSA WMIRS reporting permissions.

WMIRS:
Home  >  Support  >  Reports  >  Mission Participation Log > Air

Enter your CAPID
Assignment dropdown: Orientation Pilot
By Fiscal Year
EXPORT TO EXCEL
---
Pull this for each fiscal year you've been a pilot. You can pull a similar report from WMIRS 1.0.
---
Unfortunately this does not give you the number of cadets, just sorties.

You can pull the number of cadets flown by pulling the oflight.txt file from CAPWATCH, preferably at the wing or region level since data for cadet oflights won't show up outside of your permission level in CAPWATCH. This means if you flew cadets for other squadrons or wings, it won't show up. Cadets that fall off the roster for non-renewal won't show up in that report either.
---

Ideally for future flights I would suggest that pilots include the sortie data and number of cadets flown as notes either in the attendance module OR as a historical activity on their own record; discuss the various solutions with your chain of command. This is also where a sortable PL log for Oflights could also be useful.

Lord of the North

You may find the following WIMRS link more useful for your purposes.

WMIRS/Reports/CadetOrientationFlights.aspx

etodd

Hmmmm.  Not that its clear, but in my opinion only the front seat Cadet who is actually doing a flight profile counts. Back seat riders are not performing an Orientation flight. Cadets flying back seat on any other mission (MX, etc.) don't count as an O'ride.

All of my sorties have been with two Cadets. Fly an hour, swap seats, and fly another hour. So its two sorties and credit for two front seat O'rides.

QuoteYou may find the following WIMRS link more useful for your purposes.

WMIRS/Reports/CadetOrientationFlights.aspx


Just a one month report, but a good idea to print just the months that I do O'rides. :)
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

Lord of the North

The way NHQ explained it to me was that each cadet that was credited with an orientation (front or back seat) would count for the Orientation Pilot Ribbon.

The WMIRS report covers the entire wing for the month and year selected and gives both the names of the pilot and each of the cadet onboard.

When I was on wing staff, I was able to find the data needed for this award for the entire wing and made the award from the wing headquarters.  I had the data from this WMIRS report going back 10 years.

etodd

Quote from: Lord of the North on December 21, 2019, 02:30:41 am
The way NHQ explained it to me was that each cadet that was credited with an orientation (front or back seat) would count for the Orientation Pilot Ribbon.



Well,  the way I do it above, gives the same results. Two Cadets, flying two sorties. Credit for two.
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

Eclipse

Quote from: etodd on December 21, 2019, 02:52:39 am
Quote from: Lord of the North on December 21, 2019, 02:30:41 am
The way NHQ explained it to me was that each cadet that was credited with an orientation (front or back seat) would count for the Orientation Pilot Ribbon.



Well,  the way I do it above, gives the same results. Two Cadets, flying two sorties. Credit for two.


That's 4.

2 Right seat and 2 99s.



etodd

December 21, 2019, 03:57:48 am #11 Last Edit: December 21, 2019, 04:09:18 am by etodd
Quote from: Eclipse on December 21, 2019, 02:57:05 am
Quote from: etodd on December 21, 2019, 02:52:39 am
Quote from: Lord of the North on December 21, 2019, 02:30:41 am
The way NHQ explained it to me was that each cadet that was credited with an orientation (front or back seat) would count for the Orientation Pilot Ribbon.



Well,  the way I do it above, gives the same results. Two Cadets, flying two sorties. Credit for two.


That's 4.

2 Right seat and 2 99s.


But its the same two Cadets. I fly two Cadets one day, but get four credits since they swap seats?  Seems like "double dipping" to me. But if they want to give me the extra credit, whatever.   In my personal logbook, I note that I flew two Cadets that day.
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

Holding Pattern

Quote from: etodd on December 21, 2019, 03:57:48 am
Quote from: Eclipse on December 21, 2019, 02:57:05 am
Quote from: etodd on December 21, 2019, 02:52:39 am
Quote from: Lord of the North on December 21, 2019, 02:30:41 am
The way NHQ explained it to me was that each cadet that was credited with an orientation (front or back seat) would count for the Orientation Pilot Ribbon.



Well,  the way I do it above, gives the same results. Two Cadets, flying two sorties. Credit for two.


That's 4.

2 Right seat and 2 99s.


But its the same two Cadets. I fly two Cadets one day, but get four credits since they swap seats?  Seems like "double dipping" to me. But if they want to give me the extra credit, whatever.   In my personal logbook, I note that I flew two Cadets that day.

It isn't "double-dipping" when you are performing 2 separate flights. That is the criteria in the reg.

Eclipse

Quote from: etodd on December 21, 2019, 03:57:48 am
But its the same two Cadets.


Who each got two rides apiece in regards to the O-Flight program.

You're trying to equate sorties and passengers to O-Rides, which are individual points
as far as the program and the ribbon are concerned.

This partially because NHQ wants cadets to be in airplanes as much as possible and to
encourage 99s, because for all intents and purpose they are essentially "free".



Blanding

Quote from: etodd on December 21, 2019, 02:23:44 am
Back seat riders are not performing an Orientation flight. Cadets flying back seat on any other mission (MX, etc.) don't count as an O'ride.


Cadets flying in the back seat are performing a syllabus 99 orientation flight. That's why they must meet the same requirements of a cadet on an o-flight as the cadet in the front (i.e., they must be under 18).

Cadets flying in the back (or front) seat on other missions are not receiving orientation ride credit because you're not flying an orientation flight.

Eclipse

Wait - etodd, are you really not logging back seat rides as 99's?



etodd

Quote from: Eclipse on December 23, 2019, 05:16:34 pm
Wait - etodd, are you really not logging back seat rides as 99's?


In WMIRS, oh yes, absolutely.

We're all good here. I get how the counting is done. It's just my personal logbook notes where I will say I flew six different Cadets today. It's how I like to think of it. I may fly them all twice and CAP gives me 12 credits, but to me, at the end of the day I'm just thinking of the six smiling faces. 😀
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot