Fired gay Air Force Academy commandant was ‘toxic’ leader IG finds; she claims d

Started by JohhnyD, November 27, 2019, 08:12:23 am

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Fester

Quote from: JohhnyD on November 28, 2019, 03:29:14 am
Quote from: PHall on November 28, 2019, 02:44:28 am
Quote from: JohhnyD on November 28, 2019, 02:14:09 am
Also see https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2017/03/21/bomber-pilot-picked-to-be-the-air-force-academy-s-commandant-of-cadets/

She previously led the 2nd Bomb Wing at Barksdale Air Force Base in Louisiana, becoming the wing's first female commander. Before that, she served as the vice commander of the 509th Bomb Wing at Whiteman Air Force Base in Missouri.

Again, was diversity the reason for the selection?


No, it seems that a successful Wing Command tour earned her a chance for the Commandant job.
It was government travel card fraud that ended it.

That is her most recent job, the question was about her prior job, was that another diversity pick? And BTW her recent command was lost for multiple reasons including command climate.


What grounds do you have, other than your own insecurities rearing their anti-diversity head, that she was ever selected for ANY position merely due to her gender or sexual orientation?

Sure are a lot of unproven assumptions floating around....
1stLt, CAP
Squadron CC
Group CPO
Eaker - 1996

Spam

Quote from: Fester on November 29, 2019, 07:15:10 am

What grounds do you have, other than your own insecurities rearing their anti-diversity head, that she was ever selected for ANY position merely due to her gender or sexual orientation?

Sure are a lot of unproven assumptions floating around....



Hey, Fester - if you strike that one phrase, you've got a really strong, solid line of questioning there. Suggest sticking to your central point without the ad hominems.

V/r
Spam



abdsp51

Diversity is a term that is thrown to really mean conformity.  And anytime someone has an opposing view they are labeled as (fill in the blank).  Today's society preaches so much about inclusiveness and tolerance but the majority refuses to tolerate any other view than their own.  I highly doubt this person was selected for diversity purposes and fired for the same reason.  Misuse of that travel card is one of the quickest ways for anyone to get into trouble. 

The allegation was investigated and was substantiated what more do we really need?  Of course those who scream tolerance and diversity will make this about something its not and anyone who disagrees is (fill in the blank). 

The Merriam-Webster definition of tolerance:

Tolerance

1 : capacity to endure pain or hardship : endurance, fortitude, stamina

2a : sympathy or indulgence for beliefs or practices differing from or conflicting with one's own
b : the act of allowing something : toleration


3 : the allowable deviation from a standard especially : the range of variation permitted in maintaining a specified dimension in machining a piece

4a(1) : the capacity of the body to endure or become less responsive to a substance (such as a drug) or a physiological insult especially with repeated use or exposure developed a tolerance to painkillers also : the immunological state marked by unresponsiveness to a specific antigen

(2) : relative capacity of an organism to grow or thrive when subjected to an unfavorable environmental factor
b : the maximum amount of a pesticide residue that may lawfully remain on or in food

So by this definition tolerance does not mean acceptance. 

OldGuy

Quote from: Fester on November 29, 2019, 07:15:10 am
Quote from: JohhnyD on November 28, 2019, 03:29:14 am
Quote from: PHall on November 28, 2019, 02:44:28 am
Quote from: JohhnyD on November 28, 2019, 02:14:09 am
Also see https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2017/03/21/bomber-pilot-picked-to-be-the-air-force-academy-s-commandant-of-cadets/

She previously led the 2nd Bomb Wing at Barksdale Air Force Base in Louisiana, becoming the wing's first female commander. Before that, she served as the vice commander of the 509th Bomb Wing at Whiteman Air Force Base in Missouri.

Again, was diversity the reason for the selection?


No, it seems that a successful Wing Command tour earned her a chance for the Commandant job.
It was government travel card fraud that ended it.

That is her most recent job, the question was about her prior job, was that another diversity pick? And BTW her recent command was lost for multiple reasons including command climate.


What grounds do you have, other than your own insecurities rearing their anti-diversity head, that she was ever selected for ANY position merely due to her gender or sexual orientation?

Sure are a lot of unproven assumptions floating around....

Maybe because DIVERSITY has become the trump card in the service?

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2016/09/30/air-force-aims-to-improve-diversity-of-pilots-other-key-positions/

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-airforce-diversity-idUSKBN0M02CF20150304




Eclipse

[Verloop]
So "diversity" is the singular and only reason this officer was "gifted" the job, but a hostile work environment
based on the same factors that made this officer "diverse" isn't even a possibility.

It's always nice to see when people make things crystal clear.

[/Verloop]




OldGuy

Quote from: Eclipse on November 29, 2019, 05:26:09 pm
[Verloop]
So "diversity" is the singular and only reason this officer was "gifted" the job, but a hostile work environment
based on the same factors that made this officer "diverse" isn't even a possibility.

It's always nice to see when people make things crystal clear.

[/Verloop]


Coding failure and logic failure as well.

PHall

Quote from: OldGuy on November 29, 2019, 04:30:15 pm
Quote from: Fester on November 29, 2019, 07:15:10 am
Quote from: JohhnyD on November 28, 2019, 03:29:14 am
Quote from: PHall on November 28, 2019, 02:44:28 am
Quote from: JohhnyD on November 28, 2019, 02:14:09 am
Also see https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2017/03/21/bomber-pilot-picked-to-be-the-air-force-academy-s-commandant-of-cadets/

She previously led the 2nd Bomb Wing at Barksdale Air Force Base in Louisiana, becoming the wing's first female commander. Before that, she served as the vice commander of the 509th Bomb Wing at Whiteman Air Force Base in Missouri.

Again, was diversity the reason for the selection?


No, it seems that a successful Wing Command tour earned her a chance for the Commandant job.
It was government travel card fraud that ended it.

That is her most recent job, the question was about her prior job, was that another diversity pick? And BTW her recent command was lost for multiple reasons including command climate.


What grounds do you have, other than your own insecurities rearing their anti-diversity head, that she was ever selected for ANY position merely due to her gender or sexual orientation?

Sure are a lot of unproven assumptions floating around....

Maybe because DIVERSITY has become the trump card in the service?

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2016/09/30/air-force-aims-to-improve-diversity-of-pilots-other-key-positions/

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-airforce-diversity-idUSKBN0M02CF20150304



The military has changed a lot over the years. For example the military I joined in 1974 was very, very different from the military I retired from in 2005.
And diversity has been a thing in the military since the services were integrated back in 1947.

abdsp51

Quote from: PHall on November 29, 2019, 08:04:44 pm
The military has changed a lot over the years. For example the military I joined in 1974 was very, very different from the military I retired from in 2005.
And diversity has been a thing in the military since the services were integrated back in 1947.


Truth!!!.  The Air Force changed a lot over the course of my time in, and thankfully I'm glad I popped smoke when I did. 

JohhnyD

Quote from: PHall on November 29, 2019, 08:04:44 pm
And diversity has been a thing in the military since the services were integrated back in 1947.

It  has become THE thing though, even at the expense of the mission. That is the problem, this is the result.

PHall

Quote from: JohhnyD on November 29, 2019, 09:25:50 pm
Quote from: PHall on November 29, 2019, 08:04:44 pm
And diversity has been a thing in the military since the services were integrated back in 1947.

It  has become THE thing though, even at the expense of the mission. That is the problem, this is the result.


Do you any first hand experience or is this is a "I read this on the internet?"

JohhnyD

Quote from: PHall on November 29, 2019, 10:11:32 pm
Quote from: JohhnyD on November 29, 2019, 09:25:50 pm
Quote from: PHall on November 29, 2019, 08:04:44 pm
And diversity has been a thing in the military since the services were integrated back in 1947.

It  has become THE thing though, even at the expense of the mission. That is the problem, this is the result.


Do you any first hand experience or is this is a "I read this on the internet?"

First hand.

Larry Mangum

Larry Mangum, Lt Col CAP
SWR-SWR-001

Larry Mangum

After consulting, with another moderator, I a going to open this back up, however, if I feel it gets out of line and frankly I feel that it is on the edge, I will lock it again.
Larry Mangum, Lt Col CAP
SWR-SWR-001

CAP9907

Thank you, Sir.

Everyone here has been warned, and some personally via PM. I've locked and cleaned this thread twice now. We will not do it a 3rd time... our Members Code of Conduct is linked below: please proceed accordingly.

~9907
21 yrs of service

Our Members Code of Conduct can be found here:   http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=13.0

JohhnyD

Quote from: CAP9907 on November 30, 2019, 04:46:40 am
Thank you, Sir.

Everyone here has been warned, and some personally via PM. I've locked and cleaned this thread twice now. We will not do it a 3rd time... our Members Code of Conduct is linked below: please proceed accordingly.

~9907

If we cannot discuss these issues with respect, what hope is there that CAP senior leadership will? There are real issues here, and real-world consequences. I have seen life and death missions compromised by this, and yet there are people here (and clearly in the "real world") who want to ignore what is going on. How many real-world tragedies are acceptable at the altar of "diversity"?

Eclipse

Quote from: JohhnyD on November 30, 2019, 05:25:34 amHow many real-world tragedies are acceptable at the altar of "diversity"?


The problem with that statement/question, is that you have presented zero evidence that "diversity" had anything to
do with this officer getting the job in question, unless by "diversity" you mean "women in the military", and if you
do, that ship has sailed.

Her resume and experience were equal to or in excess of her peers and predecessors, so that's off the table.
She wasn't even the first female commandant, not by almost 10 years.

Unless you can provide actual evidence that more highly qualified candidates were passed over, then you have no argument to make.
Or by the same token, unless you can refute her claims of a hostile work environment, the same is true.

What happened here is so clear it's ridiculous, and further to support that, she's still a General, still in a high-visibility / influential position,
and still has options in regards to redress, so the final word on this isn't even written.

I guarantee you the things she is getting hit with are happening all over this country, right now, and no one cares a lick.
Generals are attending retirements, extending an "official" DC visit for Thanksgiving so they can visit their family, etc., and
a few forgot their corporate cards and need to ask an aide to cover things until they get back to the office and straighten it all out.



Eclipse

Quote from: JohhnyD on November 30, 2019, 05:25:34 amI have seen life and death missions compromised by this, and yet there are people here (and clearly in the "real world") who want to ignore what is going on.


And I have seen plenty of situations, in business and CAP, where "diverse" people are passed over for lesser qualified "not diverse" people,
and >way< too many men in positions of authority who are threatened to the point of apoplexy over women with an opinion.

CAP did, in fact, have a female National Commander who encountered this exact problem, and scores run into it on a constant basis.

This is a 2-way street.



PHall

Quote from: Eclipse on November 30, 2019, 05:46:19 am
Quote from: JohhnyD on November 30, 2019, 05:25:34 amHow many real-world tragedies are acceptable at the altar of "diversity"?


The problem with that statement/question, is that you have presented zero evidence that "diversity" had anything to
do with this officer getting the job in question, unless by "diversity" you mean "women in the military", and if you
do, that ship has sailed.

Her resume and experience were equal to or in excess of her peers and predecessors, so that's off the table.
She wasn't even the first female commandant, not by almost 10 years.

Unless you can provide actual evidence that more highly qualified candidates were passed over, then you have no argument to make.
Or by the same token, unless you can refute her claims of a hostile work environment, the same is true.

What happened here is so clear it's ridiculous, and further to support that, she's still a General, still in a high-visibility / influential position,
and still has options in regards to redress, so the final word on this isn't even written.

I guarantee you the things she is getting hit with are happening all over this country, right now, and no one cares a lick.
Generals are attending retirements, extending an "official" DC visit for Thanksgiving so they can visit their family, etc., and
a few forgot their corporate cards and need to ask an aide to cover things until they get back to the office and straighten it all out.


According to the AF Times she didn't forget her travel card, it was suspended.

Eclipse

Quote from: PHall on November 30, 2019, 05:50:14 am
According to the AF Times she didn't forget her travel card, it was suspended.


Fair enough, though I was making a generalization, not specific to this instance.

With that said, one could certainly ask >why< it was suspended, and what the USAF's expectation
was then when she was on official business (per the article) for at least some of the travel with a suspended credit card.
You only have to have dealt with a pedantic bureaucracy to know all the fun ways that you can make trouble for
people indirectly.

Also, anyone here who has dealt with the media knows exactly how accurate they can be on a micro-detail like that,
so we can't exactly litigate it here without first hand knowledge, and for those portending to have that info,
unless you can prove it, it's meaningless here.



Fester

Quote from: Eclipse on November 30, 2019, 05:49:37 am
Quote from: JohhnyD on November 30, 2019, 05:25:34 amI have seen life and death missions compromised by this, and yet there are people here (and clearly in the "real world") who want to ignore what is going on.


And I have seen plenty of situations, in business and CAP, where "diverse" people are passed over for lesser qualified "not diverse" people,
and >way< too many men in positions of authority who are threatened to the point of apoplexy over women with an opinion.

CAP did, in fact, have a female National Commander who encountered this exact problem, and scores run into it on a constant basis.

This is a 2-way street.


It has been my experience in life as a member of a minority community that those who complain about "diversity" are merely those who have been passed up for something in life that someone else was selected for that they THOUGHT was "less qualified" but "more diverse." And even if someone were to sit them down and show them exactly why that person might have been more qualified, they will never accept that that might be the case.
1stLt, CAP
Squadron CC
Group CPO
Eaker - 1996