September 29, 2020, 06:30:12 am

JROTC to the Civil Air Patrol

Started by Army Curdet, November 18, 2019, 04:38:53 pm

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Army Curdet

I am thinking about joining the Civil Air Patrol following the end of my fourth semester of Army JROTC. From what I've read, if you have at least two semesters of JROTC you can promote almost monthly (assuming you meet required criteria), and if you have four semesters of JROTC completed, then you can promote monthly (still assuming you meet required criteria) until you reach the "Eaker" award -- and from what I've read the "Eaker" award means that you're a c/LTC -- So my question: If you reach the "Eaker' award, will Civil Air Patrol still allow you to have the opportunity to be promoted to c/COL (this time in the regular ~two months instead of the ~one month, assuming you meet criteria).

                                                                                                                     - Thank you,
                                                                                                                              A potential recruit

ßτε

Two semesters will give accelerated promotion up to Wright Brothers.
Four semesters will give accelerated promotions up to Mitchell.
Six semesters will give accelerated promotion up to Earhart.
Eight semesters will give accelerated promotions up to Eaker.


The waiting period between between Eaker and Spaatz is one day.

TheSkyHornet

How yours would look (with 4 semesters of JROTC credit; 1 year) is that you would be eligible to promote every 28 days up through the end of Phase II until the Mitchell Award Milestone at Cadet Second Lieutenant.

After that, you would be eligible to promote every 56 days.

Keep in mind that this is an exception to the rule on the minimum time-in-grade for promotion eligibility and does not automatically result in your promoting at that rate. You will need to need to complete the required testing within that eligibility period, as well as demonstrate your preparedness to move up and accept greater levels of responsibility commensurate with that grade. Your Commander does not have to approve the promotion solely because you took the tests and have 28 days in-grade.

etodd

Quote from: TheSkyHornet on November 18, 2019, 06:04:47 pm


You will need to need to complete the required testing within that eligibility period ....



And if testing is given on that timetable. How often is a Cadet able to keep that rigorous a schedule?  Two PT days rained out in a row. Holiday schedules mean dropped meetings. Vacations, etc., etc.
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

Holding Pattern

It all depends on if your squadron is as motivated as you are to move forward at that pace.

Interview the squadrons in your area to see which will work with you to do that.

PHall

Quote from: etodd on November 18, 2019, 06:57:32 pm
Quote from: TheSkyHornet on November 18, 2019, 06:04:47 pm


You will need to need to complete the required testing within that eligibility period ....



And if testing is given on that timetable. How often is a Cadet able to keep that rigorous a schedule?  Two PT days rained out in a row. Holiday schedules mean dropped meetings. Vacations, etc., etc.


56 and 28 days is the minimum time between promotions, NOT a schedule!!!

TheSkyHornet

Quote from: etodd on November 18, 2019, 06:57:32 pm
Quote from: TheSkyHornet on November 18, 2019, 06:04:47 pm


You will need to need to complete the required testing within that eligibility period ....



And if testing is given on that timetable. How often is a Cadet able to keep that rigorous a schedule?  Two PT days rained out in a row. Holiday schedules mean dropped meetings. Vacations, etc., etc.


That's the point of the weather waiver, and the fact that you have to complete the CPFT within 180 days.

Eclipse




etodd

Quote from: PHall on November 18, 2019, 07:07:30 pm

56 and 28 days is the minimum time between promotions, NOT a schedule!!!


Exactly. That was my point above, not the specifics.  The OP surely understands he may not make his goal in the sort time allocated due to all these many factors, outside his control.
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

TheSkyHornet

Quote from: Eclipse on November 18, 2019, 07:52:55 pm
Weather what now?


CAPR 60-1, 5.4.5.5.
Inclement Weather. If inclement weather prevents cadets from attempting the CPFT before their HFZ credentials expire, the unit commander may authorize a 30-day extension.

When you go into the HFZ entry in eServices, you can check the "Weather Waiver" box.

Eclipse

A poor use of term for sure.  I've had CCs believing this was a legit "waiver" vs extension.



etodd

Quote from: Eclipse on November 18, 2019, 09:18:03 pm
A poor use of term for sure.  I've had CCs believing this was a legit "waiver" vs extension.


Y'all like tangents don't you?  LOL

"Extension" ... yes.  The only reason I mentioned weather is that it CAN cause extensions and may interfere with the OP's seemingly tight schedule he/she appears to be thinking is possible.  If the ONLY reason the OP is considering joining is to run through the system like a speed drill to get it all done before timing (aging) out .. he/she may want to have an honest talk about it with the squadron folks.
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

Eclipse

A valid opinion, certainly, but generally the sprinters run out of gas around Mitchell as the expectations
increase just as their available time decreases. With that said, it's a legit way to participate, so there you go.

The fact that you can get extensions for weather are certainly not a "tangent" in a conversation with someone
interested in expedient participation.



Flying Pig

Any real "benefits" to being a CAP cadet end with the Mitchell as far as accelerated military promotion.  The only reason anyone would have an interest in blasting through the ranks that fast would be for resume building.   Like eclipse mentions, I've seen a number of cadets join who meet the criteria and fizzle out around the Mitchell.  Come to think about it, none made it that far before they stopped coming or just fell in to the normal routine of promoting along with everyone else every few months.  I never had any cadets do it.  Not for the lack of trying, but the schedule became impossible, promotion boards didn't allow it, waiting for an encampment to come around, etc.  Reality is you'll lose interest and stagnate or stop coming to meetings.  Maybe you'll beat the stats, but that's what I saw happen. Besides, the program is fun.  Just join and enjoy it. 

Fester

Quote from: Eclipse on November 18, 2019, 09:18:03 pm
A poor use of term for sure.  I've had CCs believing this was a legit "waiver" vs extension.


The fact that it is called a "waiver" in eServices is likely to blame.  Take your frustrations up with NHQ.
1stLt, CAP
Squadron CC
Group CPO
Eaker - 1996

shuman14

Quote from: Fester on November 19, 2019, 06:33:41 am
Quote from: Eclipse on November 18, 2019, 09:18:03 pm
A poor use of term for sure.  I've had CCs believing this was a legit "waiver" vs extension.


The fact that it is called a "waiver" in eServices is likely to blame.  Take your frustrations up with NHQ.


Sounds like a Ghost and a Specter arguing over which one is dead... just saying.
Joseph J. Clune
Lieutenant Colonel, Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 - 1998, 2000 - 2003, 2005 - Present     CAP: National Patron 2013 - 2014, SMWOG 2020 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000      Active Army: 2003 - 2005                                       USCGAux: 2004 - Present

Army Curdet

Quote from: ßτε on November 18, 2019, 05:11:56 pm
Two semesters will give accelerated promotion up to Wright Brothers.
Four semesters will give accelerated promotions up to Mitchell.
Six semesters will give accelerated promotion up to Earhart.
Eight semesters will give accelerated promotions up to Eaker.


The waiting period between between Eaker and Spaatz is one day.


What if it's an odd number of semesters like five? Would that permit accelerated promotions up until the the rank in between the Mitchell and Earhart awards?

baronet68

Quote from: Army Curdet on November 19, 2019, 11:56:22 pm
Quote from: ßτε on November 18, 2019, 05:11:56 pm
Two semesters will give accelerated promotion up to Wright Brothers.
Four semesters will give accelerated promotions up to Mitchell.
Six semesters will give accelerated promotion up to Earhart.
Eight semesters will give accelerated promotions up to Eaker.


The waiting period between between Eaker and Spaatz is one day.


What if it's an odd number of semesters like five? Would that permit accelerated promotions up until the the rank in between the Mitchell and Earhart awards?


Uh... no.  There is no "Partial Credit".  ::)
Michael Moore, Maj, CAP
National Recruiting & Retention Manager

Terry W.

It might be worth noting that there is a difference between a traditional and block schedule for a semester. Under a block schedule a semester is technically a year worth of coursework. A better way to note it would be credits earned, not semesters completed.

arajca

Quote from: CAPR 60-15.6.2.3.1. JROTC Cadets. The accelerated rate is available after one year's JROTC credit
through Phase I, with two years' credit through Phase II, with three years' credit through
Phase III, and with four years' credit through Phase IV.



TheSkyHornet

It's written in terms of years, not semesters.

Semesters apply to collegiate ROTC and service academies, not high school/middle school.

Flying Pig

I was in JROTC and CAP as a cadet.  Of course feel free to do what the regs and your command allow, but just join and enjoy the program and be less concerned about getting promoted every month.  Of course, thats 44 year old me talking to 16 year old me  ;D

NC Hokie

Quote from: TheSkyHornet on November 20, 2019, 07:50:08 pm
It's written in terms of years, not semesters.

Semesters apply to collegiate ROTC and service academies, not high school/middle school.


True, but classes in the block schedule are twice as long as classes in the traditional schedule, making one semester of JROTC in the block schedule the academic equivalent of a full year in the traditional schedule.
NC Hokie, Lt Col, CAP

Graduated Squadron Commander
All Around Good Guy

jeders

Quote from: NC Hokie on November 21, 2019, 09:18:40 pm
Quote from: TheSkyHornet on November 20, 2019, 07:50:08 pm
It's written in terms of years, not semesters.

Semesters apply to collegiate ROTC and service academies, not high school/middle school.


True, but classes in the block schedule are twice as long as classes in the traditional schedule, making one semester of JROTC in the block schedule the academic equivalent of a full year in the traditional schedule.


But they meet for half as many days, at least when I've seen block scheduling implemented.
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

Eclipse

An interesting nuance of the way the reg is written is that is appears that a college student with ROTC
but no JROTC, would not be eligible for expedited promotions until after Mitchell.



PHall

Quote from: Eclipse on November 21, 2019, 09:41:01 pm
An interesting nuance of the way the reg is written is that is appears that a college student with ROTC
but no JROTC, would not be eligible for expedited promotions until after Mitchell.


Been my experience that CAP cadets who are in ROTC are usually busy enough that CAP tends to not be a priority anymore.

Eclipse

Quote from: PHall on November 21, 2019, 10:56:47 pm
Quote from: Eclipse on November 21, 2019, 09:41:01 pm
An interesting nuance of the way the reg is written is that is appears that a college student with ROTC
but no JROTC, would not be eligible for expedited promotions until after Mitchell.


Been my experience that CAP cadets who are in ROTC are usually busy enough that CAP tends to not be a priority anymore.


Yeah - if you're already in actual ROTC, you're not going to care much about the Mitchell if you don't already have it.



Fester

Quote from: Eclipse on November 21, 2019, 09:41:01 pm
An interesting nuance of the way the reg is written is that is appears that a college student with ROTC
but no JROTC, would not be eligible for expedited promotions until after Mitchell.


My thought on that would be that anyone in ROTC won't be working through Phase I or II since anyone in ROTC would be at least 18 years old and likely would have already been a member of CAP before turning 18.  My experience has been that almost NONE of the new cadets joining the program are over 16.  16 seems to be the effective cutoff date for new cadets joining the program in my experience.  My further experience has been that once a cadet begins college (especially if joining ROTC) they remain a member but are no longer active at all.  Except for maybe popping into a meeting or two during Winter Break.
1stLt, CAP
Squadron CC
Group CPO
Eaker - 1996

TheSkyHornet

Quote from: Eclipse on November 21, 2019, 09:41:01 pm
An interesting nuance of the way the reg is written is that is appears that a college student with ROTC
but no JROTC, would not be eligible for expedited promotions until after Mitchell.


I'm not tracking on that.

5.6.2.3.2. Service Academy & ROTC Cadets. The accelerated rate is available to Mitchell
Award recipients after their completing one semester and remains in effect indefinitely,
until the cadet withdraws from the service academy or ROTC.


That reads, to me, like you're eligible up until Mitchell, not after.

And you can join ROTC at 17. Regardless, if you join CAP, then start ROTC, you're eligible for the expedited promotion rate, and you can also use it toward your Eaker.

PHall

Quote from: TheSkyHornet on November 22, 2019, 04:21:30 pm
Quote from: Eclipse on November 21, 2019, 09:41:01 pm
An interesting nuance of the way the reg is written is that is appears that a college student with ROTC
but no JROTC, would not be eligible for expedited promotions until after Mitchell.


I'm not tracking on that.

5.6.2.3.2. Service Academy & ROTC Cadets. The accelerated rate is available to Mitchell
Award recipients after their completing one semester and remains in effect indefinitely,
until the cadet withdraws from the service academy or ROTC.


That reads, to me, like you're eligible up until Mitchell, not after.

And you can join ROTC at 17. Regardless, if you join CAP, then start ROTC, you're eligible for the expedited promotion rate, and you can also use it toward your Eaker.


And the Earhart, Eaker and Spaatz gets a ROTC cadet what?
 
The main goal of most ROTC students in their first two years is to be picked to go to Field Training and then to continue on to graduation and commissioning.
To do that they need to show their Det Commander that they are worth a Field Training slot which means their primary focus is on school and ROTC.
CAP usually ends up in the "if I have any extra time" category.

arajca

Quote from: TheSkyHornet on November 22, 2019, 04:21:30 pm
Quote from: Eclipse on November 21, 2019, 09:41:01 pm
An interesting nuance of the way the reg is written is that is appears that a college student with ROTC
but no JROTC, would not be eligible for expedited promotions until after Mitchell.


I'm not tracking on that.

5.6.2.3.2. Service Academy & ROTC Cadets. The accelerated rate is available to Mitchell
Award recipients
after their completing one semester and remains in effect indefinitely,
until the cadet withdraws from the service academy or ROTC.


That reads, to me, like you're eligible up until Mitchell, not after.

And you can join ROTC at 17. Regardless, if you join CAP, then start ROTC, you're eligible for the expedited promotion rate, and you can also use it toward your Eaker.

I read it as the accelerated rate for ROTC/Academy is available AFTER receiving the Mitchell (is available to Mitchell award recipients, hence the cadet needs to already have the Mitchell) and completing 1 semester and carries through the rest of the program, including Earhart and Eaker.

Eclipse

^This. No JROTC, no accelerated until Mitchell.



TheSkyHornet

Quote from: PHall on November 22, 2019, 04:55:37 pm
Quote from: TheSkyHornet on November 22, 2019, 04:21:30 pm
Quote from: Eclipse on November 21, 2019, 09:41:01 pm
An interesting nuance of the way the reg is written is that is appears that a college student with ROTC
but no JROTC, would not be eligible for expedited promotions until after Mitchell.


I'm not tracking on that.

5.6.2.3.2. Service Academy & ROTC Cadets. The accelerated rate is available to Mitchell
Award recipients after their completing one semester and remains in effect indefinitely,
until the cadet withdraws from the service academy or ROTC.


That reads, to me, like you're eligible up until Mitchell, not after.

And you can join ROTC at 17. Regardless, if you join CAP, then start ROTC, you're eligible for the expedited promotion rate, and you can also use it toward your Eaker.


And the Earhart, Eaker and Spaatz gets a ROTC cadet what?


The Earhart, Eaker, and Spaatz cadet don't get ROTC anything.

If you go enlisted, you get your E-3. No different than getting an accelerated promotion for college credits.
If you go officer, you get your O-1 upon completing the officer training program, like everyone else. Nobody does 10 years enlisted to leave ROTC or OCS with an advanced grade.

QuoteThe main goal of most ROTC students in their first two years is to be picked to go to Field Training and then to continue on to graduation and commissioning. To do that they need to show their Det Commander that they are worth a Field Training slot which means their primary focus is on school and ROTC.


That timeline and process differs depending on the branch.

QuoteCAP usually ends up in the "if I have any extra time" category.


As it should.

Just like CAP typically expects that you're going to put CAP before other activities. If you're in both Boy Scouts and CAP, we expect you to commit to us; the Boy Scouts side of you isn't our issue.

Sure, do multiple programs. But you're going to need to find a balance that works. I fully expect ROTC to take precedence over CAP, since that's actually a military training program toward a career. It has a very specific end result.


Quote from: Eclipse on November 22, 2019, 05:22:54 pm
^This. No JROTC, no accelerated until Mitchell.


I'm tracking now. I can see how that's an easy miss.

The accelerated rate is available to Mitchell Award recipients.
Not up until receiving the Mitchell Award.

Eclipse

No one said ROTC cadets would be focusing on CAP, but it's not unheard of.

Plenty of kids go to school locally, have time in the evenings, and continue to participate in both, many with goals
that generally not available to anyone but Phase III & IV CAP cadets - IACE, Flight Training, command of a major
activity like an NCSA or encampment, not to mention things like NESA.

The flight training, especially these days, would be a compelling reason enough to stay in and continue progressing.



Ned

Granted, my situation was a little unusual, but I was probably more involved in CAP while an ROTC cadet than I was in ROTC.  I certainly spend more time doing CAP things.

As it turned out,  the ROTC people strongly encouraged my participation in CAP, even letting me out of the 6-week Advanced Camp a week early so I could attend encampment.  The Army had already waived the first two years of ROTC course work based solely on my Spaatz.   Very nice of them, indeed.  TBF, I did return the favor by serving a couple of decades or so after commissioning.

CAP was also good to me in those ROTC years, giving me an academic scholarship as well. 

Good times.

YMMV.

MSG Mac

Quote from: Ned on November 22, 2019, 11:13:32 pm
Granted, my situation was a little unusual, but I was probably more involved in CAP while an ROTC cadet than I was in ROTC.  I certainly spend more time doing CAP things.

As it turned out,  the ROTC people strongly encouraged my participation in CAP, even letting me out of the 6-week Advanced Camp a week early so I could attend encampment.  The Army had already waived the first two years of ROTC course work based solely on my Spaatz.   Very nice of them, indeed.  TBF, I did return the favor by serving a couple of decades or so after commissioning.

CAP was also good to me in those ROTC years, giving me an academic scholarship as well. 

Good times.

YMMV.


Double Eagle
Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
50 Year Member