Marketing the Cell Phone Team

Started by etodd, November 14, 2019, 04:26:46 pm

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etodd

Maybe I'm overlooking it, so I'll ask.  Is there somewhere a brochure/pamphlet/something that describes the CAP cell Phone Forensic Team, and procedures to obtain their services? There area few missing person cases in our area that the team could possibly help with. I'd like some specifics I could pass along to various agencies. How it works, who they would call, etc. Some nice printed material would certainly be better than a phone call from some yahoo like me trying to describe it.

MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

Eclipse

The requester calls the NOC like any other mission.



PHall

Quote from: etodd on November 14, 2019, 04:26:46 pm
Maybe I'm overlooking it, so I'll ask.  Is there somewhere a brochure/pamphlet/something that describes the CAP cell Phone Forensic Team, and procedures to obtain their services? There area few missing person cases in our area that the team could possibly help with. I'd like some specifics I could pass along to various agencies. How it works, who they would call, etc. Some nice printed material would certainly be better than a phone call from some yahoo like me trying to describe it.


You mean like the CAP Capabilities handout?


Holding Pattern

Quote from: PHall on November 14, 2019, 05:07:50 pm
Quote from: etodd on November 14, 2019, 04:26:46 pm
Maybe I'm overlooking it, so I'll ask.  Is there somewhere a brochure/pamphlet/something that describes the CAP cell Phone Forensic Team, and procedures to obtain their services? There area few missing person cases in our area that the team could possibly help with. I'd like some specifics I could pass along to various agencies. How it works, who they would call, etc. Some nice printed material would certainly be better than a phone call from some yahoo like me trying to describe it.


You mean like the CAP Capabilities handout?


Are you talking about the 2013 handout? If so, can you specify which page it talks about cellular forensics, because I don't see it there.

etodd

Quote from: PHall on November 14, 2019, 05:07:50 pm
Quote from: etodd on November 14, 2019, 04:26:46 pm
Maybe I'm overlooking it, so I'll ask.  Is there somewhere a brochure/pamphlet/something that describes the CAP cell Phone Forensic Team, and procedures to obtain their services? There area few missing person cases in our area that the team could possibly help with. I'd like some specifics I could pass along to various agencies. How it works, who they would call, etc. Some nice printed material would certainly be better than a phone call from some yahoo like me trying to describe it.


You mean like the CAP Capabilities handout?


Well this one is a nice brochure, but NO MENTION of the cell phone team:

https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/CAPabilites_Brochure_HighRes_F56789D935097.pdf
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

etodd

Quote from: Holding Pattern on November 14, 2019, 05:15:11 pm
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/DO02_F_Cell_Forensic_Overview_F2A91E13D89B2.pdf

https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/NHQC_Webinar_B15F7102C85CE.pdf


Slide shows are not an easy handout, and those were more for in-house.

Looking for one like the outdated Capabilities brochure linked above, but one that really hypes the Cell Phone Team specifically. But obviously doesn't exist. Something that when I see the Sheriff post they are looking for a missing teen, I can send specific cell phone team info their way, and they don't have to dig for it.

Also thinking it would be a great way to "get in the door"  to many organizations. Help them using cell team, which can be very quick info, and then let them know what else we have to offer.
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

BJD

QuoteSomething that when I see the Sheriff post they are looking for a missing teen, I can send specific cell phone team info their way, and they don't have to dig for it.

Also thinking it would be a great way to "get in the door"  to many organizations. Help them using cell team, which can be very quick info, and then let them know what else we have to offer.


Are you sure your wing Director of Emergency Services or Government Relations Advisor aren't already doing that?  They would normally be the ones to get in the door and work with those agencies.  If they are not already, at least coordination with them would be advised.  Your Commander should also be in the loop. It is very important outside organizations and partner agencies are given the right information.  Does your wing have MOUs with these organizations you want to work with?

Holding Pattern

Quote from: BJD on November 14, 2019, 06:05:12 pm

Are you sure your wing Director of Emergency Services or Government Relations Advisor aren't already doing that?


Heh. At least in my area, I can state that I was the first person to reach out to local agencies in over 15 years and I'm at the squadron level.

There are very few states that are on the ball enough to where this would be promulgated to each agency in the state that may need it.

BJD

Quote from: Holding Pattern on November 14, 2019, 06:25:01 pm
Quote from: BJD on November 14, 2019, 06:05:12 pm

Are you sure your wing Director of Emergency Services or Government Relations Advisor aren't already doing that?


Heh. At least in my area, I can state that I was the first person to reach out to local agencies in over 15 years and I'm at the squadron level.

There are very few states that are on the ball enough to where this would be promulgated to each agency in the state that may need it.


I'm sure that is true in many wings.  However, just as a caution, there are many legal issues that are covered in the MOU /MOAs that are executed with outside agencies.  Before you start any operations with local or state agencies it may be a good idea to be sure the necessary protections are in place.

To the original question, AFRCC has MOUs in place with all wings and many outside organizations.  In our state, the Department of Fish and Game has primary responsibility for missing persons, by state law.  AFRCC has an agreement directly with them.  Requests for Cell Forensics (or any other CAP service related to missing persons) must come from them directly to AFRCC in our state.  AFRCC will task the Cell Forensics team, on their own mission number, and our wing is often not even told a search is underway if the only service needed is the Cell team.

JayT

Quote from: etodd on November 14, 2019, 05:25:12 pm
Quote from: Holding Pattern on November 14, 2019, 05:15:11 pm
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/DO02_F_Cell_Forensic_Overview_F2A91E13D89B2.pdf

https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/NHQC_Webinar_B15F7102C85CE.pdf


Slide shows are not an easy handout, and those were more for in-house.

Looking for one like the outdated Capabilities brochure linked above, but one that really hypes the Cell Phone Team specifically. But obviously doesn't exist. Something that when I see the Sheriff post they are looking for a missing teen, I can send specific cell phone team info their way, and they don't have to dig for it.

Also thinking it would be a great way to "get in the door"  to many organizations. Help them using cell team, which can be very quick info, and then let them know what else we have to offer.


Your sheriffs office more then likely already has the ability to "ping" cell phone signals on their own.
"Eagerness and thrill seeking in others' misery is psychologically corrosive, and is also rampant in EMS. It's a natural danger of the job. It will be something to keep under control, something to fight against."

BJD

Quote from: JayT on November 14, 2019, 06:55:14 pm


Your sheriffs office more then likely already has the ability to "ping" cell phone signals on their own.


The CAP Cell Forensics Team has been so successful because they do much more analysis than just relying on a "ping" of the cell signal.  On a recent search in our area, the "ping" data suggested a target that was 1½ miles from where the missing hiker was actually found.  CAP Cell Forensics produced a map in a little less than one hour that had the center Pin about 90 meters from where the hiker was found, shortly before he would have died from exposure.

etodd

Quote from: BJD on November 14, 2019, 07:06:35 pm

The CAP Cell Forensics Team has been so successful because they do much more analysis than just relying on a "ping" of the cell signal.  On a recent search in our area, the "ping" data suggested a target that was 1½ miles from where the missing hiker was actually found.  CAP Cell Forensics produced a map in a little less than one hour that had the center Pin about 90 meters from where the hiker was found, shortly before he would have died from exposure.


^^^ This ... is getting to be the norm so often.  Any local first responder can call the NOC ... no MOU needed. As I said, all of that can come later.  As for the comment about my Wing already doing all that? I'm not sure they are sending out specific info to every Police and Sheriff organization in our state.

If a person comes up missing in some local area near me, why would it be bad for me to simply give the first responders who are spreading the news, some info about the Cell Phone team and giving them the phone to NOC?  I'm not asking to be involved AT ALL.  Let the Sheriff call the NOC "direct" and get the job done.
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

arajca

What is needed is a simple 1/2 sheet information note with:
CAP cell forensics team (whatever the official name is)
NOC contact number
List of information needed
bullet point list of team's capabilities

On the back, list some of CAP's other capabilities with the wing OPS contact information.

Get this out to local PD, sheriff, SAR teams, etc. before an incident.

PHall

Quote from: etodd on November 14, 2019, 05:20:34 pm
Quote from: PHall on November 14, 2019, 05:07:50 pm
Quote from: etodd on November 14, 2019, 04:26:46 pm
Maybe I'm overlooking it, so I'll ask.  Is there somewhere a brochure/pamphlet/something that describes the CAP cell Phone Forensic Team, and procedures to obtain their services? There area few missing person cases in our area that the team could possibly help with. I'd like some specifics I could pass along to various agencies. How it works, who they would call, etc. Some nice printed material would certainly be better than a phone call from some yahoo like me trying to describe it.


You mean like the CAP Capabilities handout?


Well this one is a nice brochure, but NO MENTION of the cell phone team:

https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/CAPabilites_Brochure_HighRes_F56789D935097.pdf



But it DOES give contact info for the NOC which is what they need to start the process.

UWONGO2

Quote from: Eclipse on November 14, 2019, 04:54:51 pmThe requester calls the NOC like any other mission.


Actually the requests come from whatever state-level agency has the MOU with the AFRCC (unless coming a federal agency such as the Coast Guard or National Park Service) who pass along the request for assistance from the volunteer SAR team or Sheriff's Office that's actually executing the search. Missions are not routed through the NOC.

Quote from: JayT on November 14, 2019, 06:55:14 pmYour sheriffs office more then likely already has the ability to "ping" cell phone signals on their own.


While true, those same public safety agencies aren't doing any actual analysis of the information they are being given by the cell carriers. If you look at the presentation that Holding Pattern shared, you'll see a slide with a bunch of red dots all over it. Those are all "pings" of a phone that didn't actually move over a 24 hour period (might have been 48, it's been awhile since I was at the presentation). The team put together two small likely areas (the green shapes on the next slide) by analyzing historical data provided by the carrier and the sheriff's office found the objective shortly there after (shown on the third slide in the series). I've been at the presentation a few times, they often share stories of local law enforcement who make it pretty clear they don't believe in using cell phones to find anybody based on their previous experiences and are blown away by the accuracy of the products the cell team produces by analyzing data instead of just getting "pings" from cell carriers.

Simply calling a cell carrier and asking for a ping is like throwing a dart at the dart board, blindfolded, without knowing if you're even aiming at the right dart board. Unless you know the capabilities of what each carrier can provide, don't trust the pings, look at the data. If you don't know what the data means, call someone who does :)

NovemberWhiskey

Quote from: BJD on November 14, 2019, 06:54:26 pm
AFRCC will task the Cell Forensics team

... I'm sure "task" is just being used informally here, but for the benefit of others who may be reading this: the AFRCC doesn't have a formal tasking authority; they "ask not task".

Eclipse

Quote from: UWONGO2 on November 15, 2019, 05:01:43 am
Quote from: Eclipse on November 14, 2019, 04:54:51 pmThe requester calls the NOC like any other mission.


Actually the requests come from whatever state-level agency has the MOU with the AFRCC (unless coming a federal agency such as the Coast Guard or National Park Service) who pass along the request for assistance from the volunteer SAR team or Sheriff's Office that's actually executing the search. Missions are not routed through the NOC.


NOC requests do not have to come from a state-level agency, nor an agency that has an MOU with the AFRCC or CAP,
nor for that matter that has ever heard of CAP until the current need.

The request simply needs to come from an agency or authority who has the legal right to request
resources and commit to paying expenses.

Quote from: UWONGO2 on November 15, 2019, 05:01:43 am
Missions are not routed through the NOC.


The NOC is the coordinating office for all non-scheduled mission work, and anything involving a request for
CAP resources must go through that office, unless it falls under C911.



sardak

Quote from: Eclipse on November 15, 2019, 02:29:50 pm
The NOC is the coordinating office for all non-scheduled mission work, and anything involving a request for CAP resources must go through that office, unless it falls under C911.

No.  Per CAPR 60-3 para. 1-5 a(2)(a)
(a) The NOC is directly involved in coordinating all types of missions except SAR missions. Air Force Rescue Coordination Center (AFRCC) missions are tasked/worked directly between AFRCC and the wing involved. This includes requesting resources from other wings. The NOC does not usually get involved in SAR missions unless AFRCC requests NOC assistance or the wing/region requests NOC assistance.

As an IC, the only time I talk with the NOC on a SAR mission is when there's a glitch in WMIRS.

As for calling AFRCC in general, this is from "AFRCC_brochure_afd-120813-009.pdf" available from the AFRCC website.
--------------
The AFRCC will accept and act on initial notifications from any person or agency and will attempt to determine the urgency and the facts pertaining to the situation. When the AFRCC receives a call it is treated as an actual distress situation until proven otherwise. As the incident is investigated, a number of criteria are evaluated and include such considerations as the following:

STATE SAR AGREEMENTS: Each state has a search and rescue agreement on file in the AFRCC that delineates the responsible agency and coordinating requirements for the various types of SAR missions. Each request for federal SAR assistance is evaluated to ensure these requirements are met.

---------------

Our state agreement with AFRCC says that CAP, sheriffs and the state SAR coordinator can request assistance through AFRCC.  If any other agency calls them, AFRCC refers the calling agency to one of the three groups.  That has happened a number of times.  We also brief the sheriffs every other year on CAP capabilities and alerting procedures.

As for calling CAP, if a sheriff (by law responsible for SAR in our state) or the SAR coordinator calls CAP direct for SAR support, we tell them to call AFRCC.  That includes requests for the cell forensics team which will only works upon authorization from AFRCC.  Sheriffs and the SAR coordinator have requested cell forensics 29 times so far this year. 

Mike

Eclipse

November 15, 2019, 09:37:16 pm #19 Last Edit: November 15, 2019, 09:45:18 pm by Eclipse
Could be miscommunication, could be a change since I was Wing DOS, could just be ""Oh CAP", but when I was DOS in
the late 2000's, every mission alert came from a NOC alerting officer, and anytime we needed to have a customer
initiate a request it was "call the NOC".

So AFRCC is contacting alerting officers directly?  Who creates the mission in WMIRS?



sardak

Quote from: Eclipse on November 15, 2019, 09:37:16 pm
Could be miscommunication, could be a change since I was Wing DOS, could just be ""Oh CAP", but when I was DOS in
the late 2000's, every mission alert came from a NOC alerting officer, and anytime we needed to have a customer
initiate a request it was "call the NOC".

Must be based on your wing/state/AFRCC agreement.  I've been an IC for a long time, in two wings, each in a different region, and in both the requests came/come directly from AFRCC to the wing alerting officers.

QuoteSo AFRCC is contacting alerting officers directly?
Yes, the alerting officers receive a page, and sometimes a phone call, directly from AFRCC.

QuoteWho creates the mission in WMIRS?
AFRCC opens the mission in WMIRS and enters the initial info in the "Mission Scenario" field, along with the RCC controller's name.

Looking back through the prior versions of 60-3 and its predecessor CAPR 55-1, they all state (some more clearly than others) that the alert goes from AFRCC (or the controlling agency) to the CAP alert officer (or IC).  The versions vary in their clarity and use/misuse of terminology.

Mike

Spaceman3750

Quote from: Eclipse on November 15, 2019, 09:37:16 pm
Could be miscommunication, could be a change since I was Wing DOS, could just be ""Oh CAP", but when I was DOS in
the late 2000's, every mission alert came from a NOC alerting officer, and anytime we needed to have a customer
initiate a request it was "call the NOC".

So AFRCC is contacting alerting officers directly?  Who creates the mission in WMIRS?


Can confirm that AFRCC contacts the duty IC that the wing designated in WMIRS 1.0 (yes) directly. The controllers have access to WMIRS and create the mission directly, and have been anecdotally known to monitor progress via logs. I've worked with them directly multiple times - nice bunch of people.

Additionally, AFRCC receives and approves requests for SAR support all the time directly from customers. No need to contact the NOC - the folks at the other end of the AFRCC 800 number perform intake, validation of federal interest, and mission approval/creation directly, in accordance with the run sheet they have for each state outlining their MOU with the state.

UWONGO2

Quote from: NovemberWhiskey on November 15, 2019, 12:44:34 pm
Quote from: BJD on November 14, 2019, 06:54:26 pm
AFRCC will task the Cell Forensics team

... I'm sure "task" is just being used informally here, but for the benefit of others who may be reading this: the AFRCC doesn't have a formal tasking authority; they "ask not task".


Holy crud, I chose my words poorly there, my apologies. As Mr. Connley with the AFRCC likes to say, the AFRCC "asks, not tasks" when they call up agencies such as CAP to request assistance. You are of course correct, the AFRCC does not task CAP (such as the cell team) with missions, they only ask for assistance.

Thank you for pointing that out and preventing me from leading folks astray.

etodd

Ask  ... task ... doesn't matter to CAP. We will respond no matter how they want to spell it out. They could simply say HELP  and we will jump  🤣
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

BJD

Quote from: UWONGO2 on November 19, 2019, 04:23:46 pm
Quote from: NovemberWhiskey on November 15, 2019, 12:44:34 pm
Quote from: BJD on November 14, 2019, 06:54:26 pm
AFRCC will task the Cell Forensics team

... I'm sure "task" is just being used informally here, but for the benefit of others who may be reading this: the AFRCC doesn't have a formal tasking authority; they "ask not task".


Holy crud, I chose my words poorly there, my apologies. As Mr. Connley with the AFRCC likes to say, the AFRCC "asks, not tasks" when they call up agencies such as CAP to request assistance. You are of course correct, the AFRCC does not task CAP (such as the cell team) with missions, they only ask for assistance.



Thank you for pointing that out and preventing me from leading folks astray.


UWONGO2, I'm not sure why you are apologizing for something I said. 

However, as was pointed out, Dan Conley has told us on several occasions, AFRCC will "ask, not task".  Although I stated it incorrectly, the point I was trying to make was AFRCC will create a mission exclusively for the Cell Forensics team without any notification to the wing if no other CAP resources are requested.

Holding Pattern

Quote from: BJD on November 19, 2019, 08:32:15 pm
Quote from: UWONGO2 on November 19, 2019, 04:23:46 pm
Quote from: NovemberWhiskey on November 15, 2019, 12:44:34 pm
Quote from: BJD on November 14, 2019, 06:54:26 pm
AFRCC will task the Cell Forensics team

... I'm sure "task" is just being used informally here, but for the benefit of others who may be reading this: the AFRCC doesn't have a formal tasking authority; they "ask not task".


Holy crud, I chose my words poorly there, my apologies. As Mr. Connley with the AFRCC likes to say, the AFRCC "asks, not tasks" when they call up agencies such as CAP to request assistance. You are of course correct, the AFRCC does not task CAP (such as the cell team) with missions, they only ask for assistance.



Thank you for pointing that out and preventing me from leading folks astray.


UWONGO2, I'm not sure why you are apologizing for something I said. 

However, as was pointed out, Dan Conley has told us on several occasions, AFRCC will "ask, not task".  Although I stated it incorrectly, the point I was trying to make was AFRCC will create a mission exclusively for the Cell Forensics team without any notification to the wing if no other CAP resources are requested.


That's actually good to know. It will be a selling point in states that don't have the best of relationships with wings.

UWONGO2

Quote from: BJD on November 19, 2019, 08:32:15 pm
UWONGO2, I'm not sure why you are apologizing for something I said.


Well crap, I'm 0-2. For some reason when I read the quote I thought I wrote it, obviously I didn't check the name in the quote.

Clearly I need to stay away from the post button.

UWONGO2

Quote from: BJD on November 19, 2019, 08:32:15 pmAlthough I stated it incorrectly, the point I was trying to make was AFRCC will create a mission exclusively for the Cell Forensics team without any notification to the wing if no other CAP resources are requested.


There was a push at one time to ensure the wing commander was notified of a cell or radar mission within their wing. The argument was they should know what CAP resources have been deployed within their wing. I do not know if this was implemented.

BJD

Quote from: UWONGO2 on November 20, 2019, 06:40:51 pm



There was a push at one time to ensure the wing commander was notified of a cell or radar mission within their wing. The argument was they should know what CAP resources have been deployed within their wing. I do not know if this was implemented.
[/quote]

It was not implemented if you are asking about missions where the Cell Team is the only resource requested.  The Radar missions are different and will likely involve other resources from within the wing.  It all depends on what the requesting agency is asking for and what the MOU has for requirements.  The AFRCC has all that information in their Flex File for each state.  I would personally like to see the wing notified even if it is just a "Cell Team only" request.

sardak