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Author Topic: NC Wing of Civil Air Patrol Gets FLIR Cameras  (Read 790 times)
etodd
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« on: October 26, 2019, 01:43:41 AM »

Quote
10/23/2019–BURLINGTON, NC–The NC Wing of Civil Air Patrol (CAP) has received two new forward-looking infrared (FLIR 8500) cameras for our airplanes. The FLIR cameras use a thermographic camera that senses infrared radiation, typically emitted from a heat source, to create an image.

Acquiring the specialized cameras was a joint project between NC Emergency Management (NCEM) and the NC Wing of CAP.  NCEM is providing the funding for two CAP aircraft to be outfitted with the cameras.  Installation of the FLIR cameras is presently underway on these planes.
 
The FLIR cameras will be used on a variety of missions including Search and Rescue (SAR), Disaster Relief and Mitigation, Homeland Security, Aerial Imagery, and Aerial Reconnaissance of Traffic and Ground Conditions. Currently there are only three FLIR cameras available for SAR in North Carolina and two of them are now on CAP airplanes.

https://www.ncwgcap.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=article.display&articleID=781&page=3

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SARDOC
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« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2019, 03:10:35 AM »

That's pretty sweet. 
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Paul Creed III
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« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2019, 01:34:59 PM »

I wonder if there is some additional support for the camera on the inside of the baggage door?
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Lt Col Paul Creed III, CAP
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NIN
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« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2019, 01:37:56 PM »

I wonder if there is some additional support for the camera on the inside of the baggage door?

Big old patch of speed tape, call it good.

(Edit: Ok, lest anybody think I'm a wiseacre [hint: I am], here's a link to one of the several mount kits available for Cessna 182 aircraft. There's a fair amount of work that goes in to installing one of these, from multiple brackets, mounts for control boxes and a big honking 3 1/8" hole in the baggage door to FAA sign offs and a complete re-weighing of the aircraft for weight and balance. And like anything related to aviation, once you start tacking on words like "STC" and "field modification," the dollar signs start racking up.  Just the mount costs more than my car.)
« Last Edit: November 05, 2019, 01:50:46 PM by NIN » Report to moderator   Logged
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The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2019 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
Paul Creed III
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« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2019, 01:38:50 PM »

I wonder if there is some additional support for the camera on the inside of the baggage door?

Big old patch of speed tape, call it good.

Duct tape. All the way.
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Lt Col Paul Creed III, CAP
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JohhnyD
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« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2019, 02:13:58 PM »

Can anyone get specs on the camera, the mounting system - costs for both and training issues involved and post that here? Please?
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PHall
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« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2019, 05:14:12 PM »

I wonder if there is some additional support for the camera on the inside of the baggage door?

Big old patch of speed tape, call it good.

Duct tape. All the way.

No, Speed Tape. It's thicker (it's aluminium) and the adhesive is much stronger. AKA 300MPH tape.
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PHall
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« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2019, 05:15:42 PM »

Can anyone get specs on the camera, the mounting system - costs for both and training issues involved and post that here? Please?

It's right there in the article. FLIR 8500. Let Google be your friend.
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OldGuy
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« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2019, 07:04:40 PM »

It's right there in the article. FLIR 8500. Let Google be your friend.
Yes, the model is there. Again I will ask, "Can anyone get specs on the camera, the mounting system - costs for both and training issues involved and post that here? Please?"
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baronet68
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« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2019, 07:08:22 PM »

Quote from: PHall
No, Speed Tape. It's thicker (it's aluminium) and the adhesive is much stronger. AKA 300MPH tape.

Wow! That stuff is like $275... per roll  :-\ ??? :o
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Michael Moore, Maj, CAP
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baronet68
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« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2019, 07:17:56 PM »

It's right there in the article. FLIR 8500. Let Google be your friend.
Yes, the model is there. Again I will ask, "Can anyone get specs on the camera, the mounting system - costs for both and training issues involved and post that here? Please?"

Google search found this quote from 2016 where the total was $140,000, but does not include training costs.
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Michael Moore, Maj, CAP
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« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2019, 07:31:26 PM »

That looks like a Talon MMS, not an 8500.

https://www.flir.com/products/talon-mms/

Good on NCWG for what appears to be a close relationship with their state, but this is not coming to a
Wing near you anytime soon.
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etodd
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« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2019, 08:46:32 PM »



Good on NCWG for what appears to be a close relationship with their state ....


I'm still new enough to ask ... is it an oddity?  Do most Wings have a close working relationship with state and local EMAs, or is it a small percentage?

Does every Wing/Squadron have the ideal "salesperson" that can approach these agencies, knowledgeable in what can be done, and have the ability to properly frame it and sell it? Is that why it varies so much across the country? Some Wings may have "better connected" personnel? Politics even?
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MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

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« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2019, 09:02:44 PM »



Good on NCWG for what appears to be a close relationship with their state ....


I'm still new enough to ask ... is it an oddity?  Do most Wings have a close working relationship with state and local EMAs, or is it a small percentage?

Difficult to answer the question, but it is by no means consistent.  CAP is anywhere from a full on partner resource in wings like Alaska,
to tolerated or even ignored in other areas.

The ES framework in the US is extremely political, involving unions, fiefdoms, and lots of money, a bad combination for
volunteers.

In places where the unions and political fiefdoms are more predominate, CAP is less of a presence, if for no other reason
then people working for free aren't popular with people who would do the same job on OT.

Federal law requires all states to have an MOU with AFRCC for air SAR, but there is no legal requirement that
states have MOUs with CAP itself, resulting in some wings that don't have them because the state ES folks aren't interested in the conversation.

During times of significant incidents or disasters, local officials are happy enough to have pretty much anyone
come and help, but as the waters recede, so does the interest in CAP's involvement.

Those areas where CAP maintains a continued, legitimate presence, are almost always personality-based,
require way more brute force effort then it should, and can evaporate overnight if the wrong person get hurt feelings, quits, or dies.
(or local CAP leadership lets the fruit wither on the vine).
« Last Edit: November 05, 2019, 09:07:18 PM by Eclipse » Report to moderator   Logged


PHall
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« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2019, 09:24:17 PM »

In California for instance, the chances of CAP ever getting funded by the state for a FLIR system are about zero.
We have a good working relationship with the California Office of Emergency Services, but, the California Air National Guard has a MQ-9A Predator Training Unit and they are more then happy to do any missions requested of them. Headquarters Air Force has no problems at all with letting the Predators being used on "State" missions as long as their Federal commitments are fulfilled.
So they get used where their sensors are the best fit for the job and we get used when they need daylight pictures and video.
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sardak
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« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2019, 12:31:38 AM »

Colorado Wing approached the state Office of Emergency Management about getting a grant for a FLIR setup for one or more of our aircraft.  They liked the idea of airborne FLIR so much that they bought a pair of PC-12 Multi-Mission Aircraft (MMA), but not for us.  Identical twins, N327SF and N328SF, each equipped with IR/EO sensor, satellite WiFi and with the ability to serve as a hotspot for ground crews and all sorts of radios.  The optical sensor retracts into the plane.  They're housed in a leased hangar with crew quarters for the on-call crews.  We have found one of the MMA's weaknesses - they need to fly at at high altitudes. A couple of times they couldn't fly a mission because of the cloud layer, so CAP flew below the clouds. (Photos courtesy Colorado Division of Fire Protection and Control).


This is from an actual AFRCC mission.  Slant range from the camera to the plane is 1.2 nautical miles.  That's a thousand foot drop-off in the lower left corner.

Mike
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Spam
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« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2019, 06:22:25 PM »



That's a Pratt PT 6 and a fine basic air frame so what's the limitation?


If its the FLIR itself, perhaps you should propose synthetic aperture radar (SAR). With the money bags approving all your suggestions, maybe Scrooge McDuck would put synthetic aperture radar on your aircraft. Or alternatively LWIR...  ;)


Vr
Spam



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