Virtual wall: Border Patrol gets interceptors to detect and take down smuggler d

Started by JohhnyD, October 10, 2019, 01:28:37 pm

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JohhnyD

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/virtual-wall-border-patrol-gets-interceptors-to-detect-and-take-down-smuggler-drones

QuoteU.S. Custom and Border Protection, the Department of Homeland Security agency responsible for all trade and travel at the border, awarded in late September a $1.2 million contract for six of Citadel Defense Company's Titan V3 Drone, a 20-pound device capable of taking control of other drones by sending a signal through the airwaves. Private sector drone leaders have said their technology has barely seen any action despite border officials' concerns about suspicious drones flying into the country, even as the Trump administration has forked up billions for a physical border fence.


A mention was made at my recent Wing Conference about CAP being involved in this type of technology.

etodd

Quote from: JohhnyD on October 10, 2019, 01:28:37 pm

A mention was made at my recent Wing Conference about CAP being involved in this type of technology.


CAP is not "using" any type of technology to actively take control of, or disable other drones. We do not operate aggressively.

We might be "passively" flying some off the shelf drones, such that other agencies can test their ability to disable/control them. We would just be guinea pigs in the situation.
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

PHall

This type of stuff falls under "Law Enforcement Activities" which CAP can not participate in at all.
All we are allowed to do is the same as any other citizen can do. Observe and report.

Flying Pig

even as the Trump administration has forked up billions for a physical border fence.   So in other words.... Private sector drone companies are mad the CBP isnt spending millions on their drones.  ;D

OldGuy

Quote from: PHall on October 10, 2019, 03:26:27 pm
This type of stuff falls under "Law Enforcement Activities" which CAP can not participate in at all.
All we are allowed to do is the same as any other citizen can do. Observe and report.

Counter-drug work is an interesting LE related activity and CAP has collaborated with CBP in multiple wings and on many occasions. Since CAP now has a sUAS mission, counter sUAS tech is relevant and of interest - and especially if we are helping USAF folks work on this, as it appears we are.

PHall

Quote from: OldGuy on October 10, 2019, 08:12:46 pm
Quote from: PHall on October 10, 2019, 03:26:27 pm
This type of stuff falls under "Law Enforcement Activities" which CAP can not participate in at all.
All we are allowed to do is the same as any other citizen can do. Observe and report.

Counter-drug work is an interesting LE related activity and CAP has collaborated with CBP in multiple wings and on many occasions. Since CAP now has a sUAS mission, counter sUAS tech is relevant and of interest - and especially if we are helping USAF folks work on this, as it appears we are.


Even on the Counter Drug missions all we do is observe and report. Our job on a CD mission is to be another set of eyes. We don't pursue and we don't apprehend.
That's Law Enforcement's job.  Counter Drone Ops would be CBP's job. We would just report any sightings of any drones, if we can actually see them.

JohhnyD

Quote from: PHall on October 10, 2019, 11:21:42 pm
Counter Drone Ops would be CBP's job. We would just report any sightings of any drones, if we can actually see them.

What I heard at Wing Conference is that we are working with the Air Force on this, not CBP. How is that "Law Enforcement"?

Eclipse

Military Cooperation with Civilian Law Enforcement Agencies Act

Public Law 97-86, or Title 10, Chapter 18.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2011-title10/html/USCODE-2011-title10-subtitleA-partI-chap18-sec372.htm

"(a) In General.--The Secretary of Defense may, in accordance with other applicable law, make available any equipment (including associated supplies or spare parts), base facility, or research facility of the Department of Defense to any Federal, State, or local civilian law enforcement official for law enforcement purposes."



Mitchell 1969

Quote from: Eclipse on October 11, 2019, 01:14:44 am
Military Cooperation with Civilian Law Enforcement Agencies Act

Public Law 97-86, or Title 10, Chapter 18.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2011-title10/html/USCODE-2011-title10-subtitleA-partI-chap18-sec372.htm

"(a) In General.--The Secretary of Defense may, in accordance with other applicable law, make available any equipment (including associated supplies or spare parts), base facility, or research facility of the Department of Defense to any Federal, State, or local civilian law enforcement official for law enforcement purposes."


Where is the relevance to CAP in that US Code section? Does the DOD own CAP aircraft, drones, facilities, or are they owned by Civil Air Patrol Inc.?


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_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.

THRAWN

Quote from: JohhnyD on October 10, 2019, 01:28:37 pm
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/virtual-wall-border-patrol-gets-interceptors-to-detect-and-take-down-smuggler-drones

QuoteU.S. Custom and Border Protection, the Department of Homeland Security agency responsible for all trade and travel at the border, awarded in late September a $1.2 million contract for six of Citadel Defense Company's Titan V3 Drone, a 20-pound device capable of taking control of other drones by sending a signal through the airwaves. Private sector drone leaders have said their technology has barely seen any action despite border officials' concerns about suspicious drones flying into the country, even as the Trump administration has forked up billions for a physical border fence.


A mention was made at my recent Wing Conference about CAP being involved in this type of technology.


Was this "mention" made by a cadet? What is the source and context? Everybody's getting all sea lawyery over an anonymous fragment of a conversation. I've "heard" a lot of stuff at conferences, in different contexts. About 5% of it has come to fruition. Still waiting for each wing to get it's full compliment of OV-10s and for my commission as a National Guard officer...
Strup
"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016

JohhnyD

Quote from: THRAWN on October 11, 2019, 12:06:38 pm
Quote from: JohhnyD on October 10, 2019, 01:28:37 pm
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/virtual-wall-border-patrol-gets-interceptors-to-detect-and-take-down-smuggler-drones

QuoteU.S. Custom and Border Protection, the Department of Homeland Security agency responsible for all trade and travel at the border, awarded in late September a $1.2 million contract for six of Citadel Defense Company's Titan V3 Drone, a 20-pound device capable of taking control of other drones by sending a signal through the airwaves. Private sector drone leaders have said their technology has barely seen any action despite border officials' concerns about suspicious drones flying into the country, even as the Trump administration has forked up billions for a physical border fence.


A mention was made at my recent Wing Conference about CAP being involved in this type of technology.


Was this "mention" made by a cadet? What is the source and context? Everybody's getting all sea lawyery over an anonymous fragment of a conversation. I've "heard" a lot of stuff at conferences, in different contexts. About 5% of it has come to fruition. Still waiting for each wing to get it's full compliment of OV-10s and for my commission as a National Guard officer...

It was made by the NHQ sUAS team presenting the program details. Your snark really is unnecessary.

THRAWN

Quote from: JohhnyD on October 11, 2019, 01:32:28 pm
Quote from: THRAWN on October 11, 2019, 12:06:38 pm
Quote from: JohhnyD on October 10, 2019, 01:28:37 pm
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/virtual-wall-border-patrol-gets-interceptors-to-detect-and-take-down-smuggler-drones

QuoteU.S. Custom and Border Protection, the Department of Homeland Security agency responsible for all trade and travel at the border, awarded in late September a $1.2 million contract for six of Citadel Defense Company's Titan V3 Drone, a 20-pound device capable of taking control of other drones by sending a signal through the airwaves. Private sector drone leaders have said their technology has barely seen any action despite border officials' concerns about suspicious drones flying into the country, even as the Trump administration has forked up billions for a physical border fence.


A mention was made at my recent Wing Conference about CAP being involved in this type of technology.


Was this "mention" made by a cadet? What is the source and context? Everybody's getting all sea lawyery over an anonymous fragment of a conversation. I've "heard" a lot of stuff at conferences, in different contexts. About 5% of it has come to fruition. Still waiting for each wing to get it's full compliment of OV-10s and for my commission as a National Guard officer...

It was made by the NHQ sUAS team presenting the program details. Your snark really is unnecessary.


About as necessary as your intentionally vague statements. So one more time: what is the source and context? Was it during a formal presentation? Was it an off the cuff remark after dinner? Was there documentation or legal or regulatory justification provided?
Strup
"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016

OldGuy

Quote from: THRAWN on October 11, 2019, 01:41:13 pm
About as necessary as your intentionally vague statements. So one more time: what is the source and context? Was it during a formal presentation? Was it an off the cuff remark after dinner? Was there documentation or legal or regulatory justification provided?

Really? I have no trouble understanding that the remark was made in a presentation by the NHQ sUAS team. Odd that you struggle with that. Maybe respect is one of the core values you missed?

etodd

If you look at the post in the lobby, you'll see the links to the publically available information about the sUAS Program. In the 2019 sUAS Briefing, from Hdqs, you'll see this information regarding the current Red Cell Program.

QuoteUsing USAF provided COTS/GOTS sUAS, specially approved & trained CAP personnel are supporting active duty AF SECFOR C-sUAS training by acting as a "Red Cell" and flying those sUAS into AF installation airspace.

* Program is being administered within the sUAS program much like Green Flag is within OPS.  This is an HQ CAP mission and is assigned/administered by them and is funded directly from the USAF.  The program is known as "Red Cell"

* Personnel will be specifically vetted by the CAP/DOU and staff for participation

* Will be working directly with USAF SECFOR and OPS staff at the chosen USAF installations.

* Will require both pilots and technical teams.

* Requires coordination between Red Cell Teams and Active Duty AF locally.

* sUAS will be intercepted with non-kinetic equipment ONLY.


If you would like to be involved, contact your Wing DOU, and see if your Wing is participating.
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

THRAWN

Quote from: OldGuy on October 11, 2019, 02:18:37 pm
Quote from: THRAWN on October 11, 2019, 01:41:13 pm
About as necessary as your intentionally vague statements. So one more time: what is the source and context? Was it during a formal presentation? Was it an off the cuff remark after dinner? Was there documentation or legal or regulatory justification provided?

Really? I have no trouble understanding that the remark was made in a presentation by the NHQ sUAS team. Odd that you struggle with that. Maybe respect is one of the core values you missed?


You might take that advice yourself. There is no struggle. The OP was clear as mud when he omitted details. Odd that you can use divination to read words and meaning that are not there.
Strup
"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016

THRAWN

Quote from: etodd on October 11, 2019, 02:25:45 pm
If you look at the post in the lobby, you'll see the links to the publically available information about the sUAS Program. In the 2019 sUAS Briefing, from Hdqs, you'll see this information regarding the current Red Cell Program.

QuoteUsing USAF provided COTS/GOTS sUAS, specially approved & trained CAP personnel are supporting active duty AF SECFOR C-sUAS training by acting as a "Red Cell" and flying those sUAS into AF installation airspace.

* Program is being administered within the sUAS program much like Green Flag is within OPS.  This is an HQ CAP mission and is assigned/administered by them and is funded directly from the USAF.  The program is known as "Red Cell"

* Personnel will be specifically vetted by the CAP/DOU and staff for participation

* Will be working directly with USAF SECFOR and OPS staff at the chosen USAF installations.

* Will require both pilots and technical teams.

* Requires coordination between Red Cell Teams and Active Duty AF locally.

* sUAS will be intercepted with non-kinetic equipment ONLY.


If you would like to be involved, contact your Wing DOU, and see if your Wing is participating.


See? That wasn't too hard. Thanks for the info.
Strup
"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016

OldGuy

Quote from: THRAWN on October 11, 2019, 02:27:21 pm
Quote from: OldGuy on October 11, 2019, 02:18:37 pm
Quote from: THRAWN on October 11, 2019, 01:41:13 pm
About as necessary as your intentionally vague statements. So one more time: what is the source and context? Was it during a formal presentation? Was it an off the cuff remark after dinner? Was there documentation or legal or regulatory justification provided?

Really? I have no trouble understanding that the remark was made in a presentation by the NHQ sUAS team. Odd that you struggle with that. Maybe respect is one of the core values you missed?


You might take that advice yourself. There is no struggle. The OP was clear as mud when he omitted details. Odd that you can use divination to read words and meaning that are not there.

I read the exact words posted. Again your lack of respect is showing.

etodd

Quote from: THRAWN on October 11, 2019, 02:28:58 pm


See? That wasn't too hard. Thanks for the info.


You're welcome. And just to be doubly clear, Red Cell has zero to do with the southern border, which was the top post here. We got sidetracked. Red Cell is a wholly different operation.
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

THRAWN

Quote from: OldGuy on October 11, 2019, 02:34:01 pm
Quote from: THRAWN on October 11, 2019, 02:27:21 pm
Quote from: OldGuy on October 11, 2019, 02:18:37 pm
Quote from: THRAWN on October 11, 2019, 01:41:13 pm
About as necessary as your intentionally vague statements. So one more time: what is the source and context? Was it during a formal presentation? Was it an off the cuff remark after dinner? Was there documentation or legal or regulatory justification provided?

Really? I have no trouble understanding that the remark was made in a presentation by the NHQ sUAS team. Odd that you struggle with that. Maybe respect is one of the core values you missed?


You might take that advice yourself. There is no struggle. The OP was clear as mud when he omitted details. Odd that you can use divination to read words and meaning that are not there.

I read the exact words posted. Again your lack of respect is showing.


Go read the first post. Zero details about who said it and in what context. The article linked is something completely different. Lack of respect? This from the guy with the need to lecture. Later, gator.
Strup
"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016

OldGuy

Quote from: THRAWN on October 11, 2019, 02:37:03 pm
Go read the first post. Zero details about who said it and in what context. The article linked is something completely different. Lack of respect? This from the guy with the need to lecture. Later, gator.

Why the "first post"? Why not the clarifying answer?
Quote from: JohhnyD on October 11, 2019, 01:32:28 pm
It was made by the NHQ sUAS team presenting the program details. Your snark really is unnecessary.

Again, respect.