February 28, 2020, 02:46:18 pm

FEMA Urban Search & Rescue and CAP?

Started by etodd, August 31, 2019, 11:57:57 pm

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etodd

So I'll ask, 'cause I don't have a clue.

The way this past mission was going to pan out and the way the one coming up any day ... is that the sUAS Teams will be embedded in FEMA Urban Search & Rescue teams.  IOW, no CAP IC(?), no CAP ground teams, no CAP mission base, its just FEMA bringing our sUAS Mission Pilots and Technicians into their teams.

I'm just talking about sUAS here. Of course all of CAP and the airplanes, etc, will deploy in different locations for full mission work.

My question is, whether this happens often, or has before? FEMA or any other customer, just requesting certain people to embed in their teams for specific purposes?
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

JayT

Quote from: etodd on August 31, 2019, 11:57:57 pm
So I'll ask, 'cause I don't have a clue.

The way this past mission was going to pan out and the way the one coming up any day ... is that the sUAS Teams will be embedded in FEMA Urban Search & Rescue teams.  IOW, no CAP IC(?), no CAP ground teams, no CAP mission base, its just FEMA bringing our sUAS Mission Pilots and Technicians into their teams.

I'm just talking about sUAS here. Of course all of CAP and the airplanes, etc, will deploy in different locations for full mission work.

My question is, whether this happens often, or has before? FEMA or any other customer, just requesting certain people to embed in their teams for specific purposes?


No. FEMA USAR Teams are normally composed of professionals from large urban fire, EMS, and police departments who have access to equipment, funding, and grant money that'll make you weep. If they want a drone, they'll send a guy to school. Additionally, and anecdotally, most Teams aren't going to want outsiders/volunteers embedded with them.
"Eagerness and thrill seeking in others' misery is psychologically corrosive, and is also rampant in EMS. It's a natural danger of the job. It will be something to keep under control, something to fight against."

etodd

Quote from: JayT on September 01, 2019, 12:06:58 am
Quote from: etodd on August 31, 2019, 11:57:57 pm
So I'll ask, 'cause I don't have a clue.

The way this past mission was going to pan out and the way the one coming up any day ... is that the sUAS Teams will be embedded in FEMA Urban Search & Rescue teams.  IOW, no CAP IC(?), no CAP ground teams, no CAP mission base, its just FEMA bringing our sUAS Mission Pilots and Technicians into their teams.

I'm just talking about sUAS here. Of course all of CAP and the airplanes, etc, will deploy in different locations for full mission work.

My question is, whether this happens often, or has before? FEMA or any other customer, just requesting certain people to embed in their teams for specific purposes?


No. FEMA USAR Teams are normally composed of professionals from large urban fire, EMS, and police departments who have access to equipment, funding, and grant money that'll make you weep. If they want a drone, they'll send a guy to school. Additionally, and anecdotally, most Teams aren't going to want outsiders/volunteers embedded with them.


But yet, they are asking for us now, hence my question. FEMA has something in mind and will be using this hurricane to see how we can work embedded with them. IDK ... time will tell.
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

CAP9907

I'd refer you to CAPR 60-3, sec 1-12 to start.

No mission goes without a CAP Incident Commander and an assigned mission number.
21 yrs of service

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etodd

Quote from: CAP9907 on September 01, 2019, 12:45:50 am
I'd refer you to CAPR 60-3, sec 1-12 to start.

No mission goes without a CAP Incident Commander and an assigned mission number.


Yes.  So these teams being sent out and embedded into FEMA ... maybe are not what we consider a "mission"?

Its different but you made me think of this. When the cell phone team gets a call from AFRCC or whoever the intermediary is ... does a Mission number and IC get assigned each time? Even if its just on paper, since the cell team guy might be using a laptop on the beach, in his swimsuit, to make the save?

Both are unusual and not the CAP norm. Hence my asking for past experiences and how it was done.
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

CAP9907

Cell and Radar teams all have a mission number assigned for each tasking (mission).

Any other CAP assets deploying or operating without an assigned mission number are 'self deploying', which is expressly prohibited by the same regulation. More than that, they are operating completely off the reservation and not covered by any type of liability insurance...

I would have thought that an ESO, FRO, and check pilot would have a better awareness of this...  please read CAPR 60-3 and also 70-1 for that matter..

YMMV,

~9907
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etodd

Quote from: CAP9907 on September 01, 2019, 01:32:34 am
Cell and Radar teams all have a mission number assigned for each tasking (mission).

Any other CAP assets deploying or operating without an assigned mission number are 'self deploying', which is expressly prohibited by the same regulation. More than that, they are operating completely off the reservation and not covered by any type of liability insurance...

I would have thought that an ESO, FRO, and check pilot would have a better awareness of this...  please read CAPR 60-3 and also 70-1 for that matter..



Yes .. I know all that, and hey, agree with you. Especially in the liability areas, etc., etc.

Yet Hdqs sent crews to Puerto Rico, and has teams standing by to go get embedded in FEMA teams in response to Dorian.

I don't know that I would say the sUAS Pilots themselves are "self deploying" since they are responding to Hqds, who is buying them plane tickets, etc.

Maybe FEMA is covering our guys on their side since they are embedded? IDK. We folks here in CAPTalk don't have access to the agreements drawn up for this(?)
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

Gunsotsu

The fact that you've somehow, in defiance of all logic, obtained the accolades you have in this organization is either an aberration or a wilful oversight on the part of those that've approved them.

60-3, 70-1. It's not rocket surgery. Go rewatch the sUAS OPLAN webinar for that matter.   

CAP9907

A CAP Incident Commander, level 1, was and still is assigned to the PR mission along with an authorized mission number. Coverage complete, he was giving the orders to whatever CAP assets were deployed.

FL and other SER Wings have precautionary and RELO missions in the hopper... A CAP IC will direct our response to various customer needs IAW our policies and procedures.

We are CAP Members, not FEMA Staff or augmentees. We operate under CAP regulations, directives and insurance. Similar to CERT, you can do CAP or CERT, but not both at the same time... you gotta choose a boss to serve.

~9907
21 yrs of service

Our Members Code of Conduct can be found here:   http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=13.0

THRAWN

FEMA doesn't have teams to embed anything into.
Strup
"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
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USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016

etodd

September 01, 2019, 02:20:01 am #10 Last Edit: September 01, 2019, 02:41:19 am by etodd
Quote from: CAP9907 on September 01, 2019, 02:07:13 am
A CAP Incident Commander, level 1, was and still is assigned to the PR mission along with an authorized mission number. Coverage complete, he was giving the orders to whatever CAP assets were deployed.

FL and other SER Wings have precautionary and RELO missions in the hopper... A CAP IC will direct our response to various customer needs IAW our policies and procedures.



Thanks for the info!  I knew there is an IC there watching over the WALDO Missions.  I did not know he was also working with the sUAS Teams that Austin sent over to embed with the FEMA Urban SAR teams.   IDK. I'm just observing from a distance.  It all just seemed weird ... hence my starting this thread. Glad you knew that the IC there is covering it all. It seemed very separate. Glad to hear it was consolidated.
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

etodd

Quote from: THRAWN on September 01, 2019, 02:11:14 am
FEMA doesn't have teams to embed anything into.


Quote"FEMA Urban Search and Rescue Teams are deployed to Georgia and Florida, and additional teams are being mobilized."


https://www.fema.gov/news-release/2019/08/30/federal-government-mobilizes-southeast-us-prepares-hurricane-dorian
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

THRAWN

Quote from: etodd on September 01, 2019, 02:26:41 am
Quote from: THRAWN on September 01, 2019, 02:11:14 am
FEMA doesn't have teams to embed anything into.


Quote"FEMA Urban Search and Rescue Teams are deployed to Georgia and Florida, and additional teams are being mobilized."


https://www.fema.gov/news-release/2019/08/30/federal-government-mobilizes-southeast-us-prepares-hurricane-dorian


You should read up on the task forces.
Strup
"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016

etodd

September 01, 2019, 03:09:57 am #13 Last Edit: September 01, 2019, 03:17:48 am by etodd
Quote from: THRAWN on September 01, 2019, 02:57:37 am
Quote from: etodd on September 01, 2019, 02:26:41 am
Quote from: THRAWN on September 01, 2019, 02:11:14 am
FEMA doesn't have teams to embed anything into.


Quote"FEMA Urban Search and Rescue Teams are deployed to Georgia and Florida, and additional teams are being mobilized."


https://www.fema.gov/news-release/2019/08/30/federal-government-mobilizes-southeast-us-prepares-hurricane-dorian


You should read up on the task forces.


Intend to. I need to know what to tell the guys I'm training. When they hear they might be embedded in FEMA teams, and ask me what that means, I'm not getting anything filtered down our way from above.  Hoping the next couple weeks, if our sUAS Teams get called back out again, will show us what Hdqs has in mind.

MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

Luis R. Ramos

One or several of the FEMA classes do state they send out field teams. Of the top of my head I do not remember which one. I do not think it is in IS-100, IS-200, IS-700, or IS-800. Nor is it covered in IS-300 or IS-400.

I believe it was IS-101-a, Deployment Basics. Then there are several classes on Emergency Support Functions such as IS-802, Communications.

On these classes they cover the FEMA field teams.
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SarDragon

I'm shutting this off for a while. The level of contention has reached an unacceptable level, mostly because a few of the players can't seem to behave like professional adults.

The admins and mods are in discussion about the next step.
Click.
Dave Bowles
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