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CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Cadet Programs Management & Activities  |  Topic: Cadet Achievements 10, 14 & 15 Named - Eff 1 Oct 2019
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Author Topic: Cadet Achievements 10, 14 & 15 Named - Eff 1 Oct 2019  (Read 887 times)
Eclipse
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« on: August 10, 2019, 09:30:34 PM »

Effective 1 October 2019...

Achievement 10: Lt Willa Brown Achievement

Achievement 14: Col George Boyd Achievement

Achievement 15: Dr. Sally Ride Achievement

https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/programs/cadets/stripes-to-diamonds
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CFToaster
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« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2019, 10:35:52 PM »

Can you cite an additional source, please? Those changes aren’t reflected in the information at the link you posted.
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OldGuy
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« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2019, 10:39:36 PM »

Can you cite an additional source, please? Those changes aren’t reflected in the information at the link you posted.
See https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/2019_Booklet_BBBBB71B17FA4.pdf
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Spam
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« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2019, 10:47:06 PM »

Seems like some good choices.
Whats the source you're citing, Eclipse?

V/r
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EDIT - thanks... got the reference.

« Last Edit: August 10, 2019, 11:01:23 PM by Spam » Report to moderator   Logged
SarDragon
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« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2019, 01:21:51 AM »

Gee, that went well. Let's say buh-bye.

edit - Opened by request. Let's cut out the snark, and keep it civil.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2019, 05:57:06 AM by SarDragon » Report to moderator   Logged
Dave Bowles
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Eclipse
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« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2019, 03:15:22 PM »



This was my original source - the pamphlet is better.
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Spam
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« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2019, 01:51:15 AM »

Gee, that went well. Let's say buh-bye.

edit - Opened by request. Let's cut out the snark, and keep it civil.


If by that you meant me, I was sincere. Those are good choices. I think I even suggested one or two in my posts to Curt's 2014 NHQ/CP blog post, but I just checked it and they've nuked all the suggestions when they rehosted to the new website.

V/r
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Capmonkey
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« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2019, 03:14:33 PM »

Being on the NCAC who worked on it this term, we had a lot of suggestions that we had to narrow down. The plan is in 5-10 years from now, the NCAC can go and rename more of the achievements, so rest assured that the suggestions will still be there!
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Jester
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« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2019, 03:33:12 PM »

Being on the NCAC who worked on it this term, we had a lot of suggestions that we had to narrow down. The plan is in 5-10 years from now, the NCAC can go and rename more of the achievements, so rest assured that the suggestions will still be there!

Hold up.  "Rename more of the achievements" as in:

1) changing the name of achievements already named after somebody;

or

2) adding new names to Achievements 9, 11, 12, 13, 15, and 16?

I'm hoping it's 2, and am pretty sure it is, but I figured I'd ask for clarification.
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2019, 03:38:27 PM »

ILWG Conference, 2006.

Mr LaFond talks about renaming all the numbered achievement after Aviation figures.

Present Day, 2019.

3 down, 5 to go. It took (at least) 13 years to get the (estates or families) to agree to three...how long for the last 5?
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Capmonkey
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« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2019, 05:28:30 PM »

Being on the NCAC who worked on it this term, we had a lot of suggestions that we had to narrow down. The plan is in 5-10 years from now, the NCAC can go and rename more of the achievements, so rest assured that the suggestions will still be there!

Hold up.  "Rename more of the achievements" as in:

1) changing the name of achievements already named after somebody;

or

2) adding new names to Achievements 9, 11, 12, 13, 15, and 16?

I'm hoping it's 2, and am pretty sure it is, but I figured I'd ask for clarification.

Number 2 all the way!
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NIN
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« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2019, 05:35:56 PM »

ILWG Conference, 2006.

Mr LaFond talks about renaming all the numbered achievement after Aviation figures.

Present Day, 2019.

3 down, 5 to go. It took (at least) 13 years to get the (estates or families) to agree to three...how long for the last 5?

You sound like you're unhappy that they renamed them at all.

Do you know how to contact the next of kin or responsible party to ask the appropriate permission?  Perhaps you could volunteer such expertise.

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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
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The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2019 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2019, 06:22:08 PM »

ILWG Conference, 2006.

Mr LaFond talks about renaming all the numbered achievement after Aviation figures.

Present Day, 2019.

3 down, 5 to go. It took (at least) 13 years to get the (estates or families) to agree to three...how long for the last 5?

You sound like you're unhappy that they renamed them at all.

Do you know how to contact the next of kin or responsible party to ask the appropriate permission?  Perhaps you could volunteer such expertise.


I'm just surprised that in all of that time, all 8 couldn't get done at the same time. Understandably getting next of kin permission is hard, but that just raises a whole set of other questions.
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baronet68
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« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2019, 08:29:15 PM »

I'm just surprised that in all of that time, all 8 couldn't get done at the same time. Understandably getting next of kin permission is hard, but that just raises a whole set of other questions.

Personally, I'd like to see another 10-20 years pass before another achievement is named.  Reason being, there are probably people today with accomplishments impacting aviation in ways that aren't realized today. 

Who knows, we could end up with an Elon Musk achievement someday.  ;D
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Michael Moore, Maj, CAP
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« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2019, 09:18:04 PM »

Yeah I mean look what happened when they got all excited and named one after Frank Borman....
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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2019, 09:35:45 PM »

Yeah I mean look what happened when they got all excited and named one after Frank Borman....


I'm kinda surprised they didn't re-roll the dice on that one for what became Eaker or one of the others...
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Offutteer
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« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2019, 01:17:35 PM »


2) adding new names to Achievements 9, 11, 12, 13, 15, and 16?

All of those were actually named at one time.  They were named after staff positions.  Looks like NHQ removed the names at some point, but I don't remember seeing a notice of the change. 
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TheSkyHornet
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« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2019, 01:26:36 PM »

I'm just surprised that in all of that time, all 8 couldn't get done at the same time. Understandably getting next of kin permission is hard, but that just raises a whole set of other questions.

Personally, I'd like to see another 10-20 years pass before another achievement is named.  Reason being, there are probably people today with accomplishments impacting aviation in ways that aren't realized today. 

Who knows, we could end up with an Elon Musk achievement someday.  ;D

I don't think names should be kept on the docket solely as cadet Achievement-use.

Consider awards:
"The Elon Musk award for innovation and determination in the advancement of aerospace technology and study" --- Merely as an example

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« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2019, 01:43:44 PM »

I'm just surprised that in all of that time, all 8 couldn't get done at the same time. Understandably getting next of kin permission is hard, but that just raises a whole set of other questions.

Personally, I'd like to see another 10-20 years pass before another achievement is named.  Reason being, there are probably people today with accomplishments impacting aviation in ways that aren't realized today. 

Who knows, we could end up with an Elon Musk achievement someday.  ;D

I don't think names should be kept on the docket solely as cadet Achievement-use.

Consider awards:
"The Elon Musk award for innovation and determination in the advancement of aerospace technology and study" --- Merely as an example


<GAG>

Mr. Musks reputation among industry engineers is far different, I assure you, than his reputation amongst the general public or those aviation fanboys who have his posters in their bedrooms.


V/r
Spam


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Ozzy
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« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2019, 05:26:29 PM »

I'm just surprised that in all of that time, all 8 couldn't get done at the same time. Understandably getting next of kin permission is hard, but that just raises a whole set of other questions.

Personally, I'd like to see another 10-20 years pass before another achievement is named.  Reason being, there are probably people today with accomplishments impacting aviation in ways that aren't realized today. 

Who knows, we could end up with an Elon Musk achievement someday.  ;D

I don't think names should be kept on the docket solely as cadet Achievement-use.

Consider awards:
"The Elon Musk award for innovation and determination in the advancement of aerospace technology and study" --- Merely as an example


<GAG>

Mr. Musks reputation among industry engineers is far different, I assure you, than his reputation amongst the general public or those aviation fanboys who have his posters in their bedrooms.


V/r
Spam

Same thing could be said about Steve Jobs I suppose. But let's say the BFR does come to fruition and is the rocket used to get us to Mars first. Would that be significant enough to warrant an achievement named after him?
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Ozyilmaz, MSgt, CAP
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TheSkyHornet
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« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2019, 05:37:01 PM »

I'm just surprised that in all of that time, all 8 couldn't get done at the same time. Understandably getting next of kin permission is hard, but that just raises a whole set of other questions.

Personally, I'd like to see another 10-20 years pass before another achievement is named.  Reason being, there are probably people today with accomplishments impacting aviation in ways that aren't realized today. 

Who knows, we could end up with an Elon Musk achievement someday.  ;D

I don't think names should be kept on the docket solely as cadet Achievement-use.

Consider awards:
"The Elon Musk award for innovation and determination in the advancement of aerospace technology and study" --- Merely as an example


<GAG>

Mr. Musks reputation among industry engineers is far different, I assure you, than his reputation amongst the general public or those aviation fanboys who have his posters in their bedrooms.


V/r
Spam

Like I said....for example.

I mean, you could have a Jim Lovell award for facing adversity, or a Bessie Coleman flight scholarship.

My point is that we don't need to limit ourselves to believing that aerospace marvels are solely reserved for Cadet Programs.

If we're going to nitpick the traits of famous names in aerospace, Amelia Earhart was not as good of a pilot as others during her era. She happened to be romantically involved, and later married, a publisher; hence her publicity at the time.


But I don't think we should hold up naming achievements just because there may be more to come. If there's a future name out there in the industry, there are other ways to pay homage.

Most cadets don't even know the stories of the names of their achievements. Most Cadet Programs Officers don't know who Jack Sorenson is.
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Phil Hirons, Jr.
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« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2019, 06:37:41 PM »

Never mind Billy Mitchell was court-martialed.
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MSG Mac
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« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2019, 03:02:01 AM »

Yeah I mean look what happened when they got all excited and named one after Frank Borman....


I'm kinda surprised they didn't re-roll the dice on that one for what became Eaker or one of the others...

Borman lost his glitter when he ran Eastern Airlines into bankruptcy
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Michael P. McEleney
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« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2019, 10:09:47 AM »

Never mind Billy Mitchell was court-martialed.

Come on now. Don’t just toss the grenade and flee. At least mention that the court martial was due to him never wavering on the issue of air power and standing for his principles.

Also...he was also posthumously promoted to Major General on the retired list, had a bomber design named after him with neatly 10,000 produced, was awarded a posthumous Congressional Gold Medal, had a U. S. Navy shipped named after him, an airport named for him, etc. etc.
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2019, 03:16:06 PM »

Yeah I mean look what happened when they got all excited and named one after Frank Borman....


I'm kinda surprised they didn't re-roll the dice on that one for what became Eaker or one of the others...

Borman lost his glitter when he ran Eastern Airlines into bankruptcy


So he wasn't a great business leader. From his Wiki page alone, he was a great proponent of space flight.
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Holding Pattern
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« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2019, 05:03:56 PM »

Never mind Billy Mitchell was court-martialed.

Come on now. Don’t just toss the grenade and flee. At least mention that the court martial was due to him never wavering on the issue of air power and standing for his principles.

Also...he was also posthumously promoted to Major General on the retired list, had a bomber design named after him with neatly 10,000 produced, was awarded a posthumous Congressional Gold Medal, had a U. S. Navy shipped named after him, an airport named for him, etc. etc.

Indeed, most people mention the Court Martial as a point of honor instead of a negative all things considered. Many a CAP cadet and officer have been known to quote him as well when fighting a chain of command that keeps doing things wrong in the face of regs and common sense.
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CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Cadet Programs Management & Activities  |  Topic: Cadet Achievements 10, 14 & 15 Named - Eff 1 Oct 2019
 


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