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CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Cadet Programs Management & Activities  |  Topic: Assigning a C/SSgt as First Sergeant
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Author Topic: Assigning a C/SSgt as First Sergeant  (Read 435 times)
CapStranger
Newbie

Posts: 4

« on: August 09, 2019, 06:42:44 PM »

Is it at the C/CC's choice of who can serve as first sergeant, even if they are not C/MSgt-C/CMSgt? We have 4 ncos and 3 officers in our squadron. the three officers are serving as command staff, 1 of our C/CMSgt is serving as flight com, the other is working on his Mitchell and the C/SMSgt is serving as flight sergeant. I don't feel like this should be allowed but i don't know the regs for it.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time With Silver Clasp
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Posts: 30,145

« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2019, 06:49:43 PM »

No.

The process for the selection will be up to the CC and CDC, however to be eligible, per regulation,
they must meet the below minimums.

CAPR 60-1, Page 20:
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/CAPR_601__Cadet_Program_Management__36D2A228D5925.pdf

"4.1.1. Design Considerations. There is no standard organizational structure for a cadet staff. Each unit
will design a staff structure that is appropriate for its mix of cadets, consistent with the broad principles
set forth in CAPP 60-31. Cadets must meet the grade eligibility requirements shown in Table 4.1 below to
serve in cadet staff positions. To afford units flexibility, minimum grades for some positions are set lower
than their doctrinally pure levels (e.g., flight commander is an officer position by doctrine, but a C/MSgt
may be assigned.)"



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Ozzy
Seasoned Member

Posts: 432
Unit: GA

« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2019, 10:47:59 PM »

You also don't need to have a cadet first sergeant. I'm not too much of a fan of the position, a lot of squadrons tend to use it incorrectly and thus hinder the growth of their flight commanders and flight sergeants.
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Ozyilmaz, MSgt, CAP
C/Lt. Colonel (Ret.)
NYWG Encampment 07, 08, 09, 10, 17
CTWG Encampment 09, 11, 16
NER Cadet Leadership School 10
GAWG NCOA 18
GAWG Encampment 19
Holding Pattern
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,457
Unit: Worry

« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2019, 12:34:27 AM »

You also don't need to have a cadet first sergeant. I'm not too much of a fan of the position, a lot of squadrons tend to use it incorrectly and thus hinder the growth of their flight commanders and flight sergeants.

As a squadron commander always looking to learn new things...

What is the wrong way you see them used and what is the right way?
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Color Guard Rifleman
Forum Regular

Posts: 179
Unit: GLR-MI-265

Grand Rapids Metro Cadet Squadron
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2019, 01:45:21 AM »

You also don't need to have a cadet first sergeant. I'm not too much of a fan of the position, a lot of squadrons tend to use it incorrectly and thus hinder the growth of their flight commanders and flight sergeants.

As a squadron commander always looking to learn new things...

What is the wrong way you see them used and what is the right way?

I feel like you are misunderstanding what he is saying. He is saying "I am unsure that a SSgt can be a First Sergeant. Is that right?" Not "This cadet is in the wrong position because other people are more qualified."

CapStranger, if this isn't what you are trying to say, sorry for putting words in your mouth
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C/SMSgt Murphy Killeen, CAP
2019 MIWG Encampment Squadron 2 First Sergeant
Recruiting NCO

See the source image
Color Guard Rifleman
Forum Regular

Posts: 179
Unit: GLR-MI-265

Grand Rapids Metro Cadet Squadron
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2019, 01:46:31 AM »

removed
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C/SMSgt Murphy Killeen, CAP
2019 MIWG Encampment Squadron 2 First Sergeant
Recruiting NCO

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CapStranger
Newbie

Posts: 4

« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2019, 04:49:37 PM »

So can the C/CC make an exception for this regulation or is that not allowed. Honestly, we only have around 14 cadets who come to the meeting every night(5 airmen, 5 NCO's, and 4 officers). I don't even think we need a first sergeant, we only ever have one flight at the meetings.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time With Silver Clasp
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Posts: 30,145

« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2019, 05:03:50 PM »

So can the C/CC make an exception for this regulation or is that not allowed.

No. The verbiage is clear, and uses "must", not "should". There are also good order, discipline and training
reasons for this.

And without putting too fine a point on it, this is a Unit Commander / Unit Deputy Commander decision, not the Cadet Commander,
who may have input, but is not the approval authority or final say.

FWIW I would agree with Ozzy, CAP cadets are too transient in their grades and roles to make proper use of a First Sergeant in the
majority of squadrons.  You have to have an less-than-common scale for things to work properly.  The typical 2-flight CAP
unit isn't going to have a large enough span of control to make the job anything more then one more link in the "go outside and
call them in" chain.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time With Silver Clasp
*
Posts: 30,145

« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2019, 05:09:03 PM »

What case can be made that the appointment of an unqualified cadet to an optional role in a unit too small
to properly fill the manning table is appropriate or warranted?

What is the need?

What is the advantage?

If a clear regulation as quoted can be ignored for expediency or ego, what other regulations are optional?
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GaryVC
Seasoned Member

Posts: 220
Unit: PCR-NV-070

« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2019, 04:57:44 PM »

Our first sergeant is also the cadet responsible for PT. We have 50 cadets so we do not usually have problems with the grade. I don't think a unit with 14 cadets needs a first sergeant.
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