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Eclipse
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« on: July 10, 2019, 05:14:51 PM »

Sources:
Encampment Guide:
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/Encampment_Guide_2017_D02F6386A8BEF.pdf

CAPR 60-1:
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/CAPR_601__Cadet_Program_Management__36D2A228D5925.pdf

Based on any number of comments and conversations I've had recently here, elsewhere, and IRL, it
appears that many encampment staff and participants need the below (and other) reminders.

IMHO, any and all staff and cadre should be more then familiar with the above.

The TL;DR summary...

Terminology (Page 3):
Participant cadets are "Students"
Staff cadets are "Cadre"
Adult flight chaperones are "Training Officers"

Organization (Page 16-20, with an emphasis on 20):
There are specific staff roles and titles, a number of which have changed
with specific reasoning (Ex: the is no C/XO, instead there are two peer C/CDs).

Adult to cadet ratio (Page 16):
Minimum 1 per flight, must be full-time

Watches (Page 11):
Cadets keep their watches

Temporary / made-up / removing cadet grade (60-1 Page 23):
Not allowed.

Firewatch (Page 9):
Only seniors do firewatch.

Required sleep (Page 9):
8.5 for students
8 for Cadre

Personal time (Page 9):
30 minutes before lights out for students

Airport Pickup (R60-2, Page 10):
Cadets flying commercial to any CAP activity must be met at the airport.

Swarming (Page 10):
Not allowed.  Cadets and parents are to be "warmly greeted".

RST (Page 10):
Required for all Senior staff and Cadre for all encampments and NCSAs,
must be repeated for each activity, respectively.

Exit times (Page 12):
All cadets must have their sign-out times noted.

I'm probably missing a few, Seniors and Cadets can be very creative in ignoring CAP regs and policies.
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NIN
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« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2019, 05:58:32 PM »

"But... but... That's not the way we've always done it!"
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Fester
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« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2019, 04:22:41 AM »

"But... but... That's not the way we've always done it!"

Maybe a way to fix that is to have a required training with a member of NHQ Cadet Programs staff, each Wing CC, each Wing CP Director and the Encampment Commander prior to the start of Encampment Season.  Training can be done via teleconference.
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1stLt, CAP
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« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2019, 05:19:16 PM »

Seniors and Cadets can be very creative in ignoring CAP regs and policies.

Isn't that the truth...  :-\
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CAPDepCom
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« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2019, 05:28:58 PM »

"But... but... That's not the way we've always done it!"

Maybe a way to fix that is to have a required training with a member of NHQ Cadet Programs staff, each Wing CC, each Wing CP Director and the Encampment Commander prior to the start of Encampment Season.  Training can be done via teleconference.

 :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Having just experienced my first encampment, I couldn't agree more.  Was totally in the dark on how the whole thing was structured, what was expected for TOs by the encampment staff, and so on.  Did not have clear picture of anything other than when I was to be there and when I was going home.  Before someone asks why I didn't inquire beforehand -- I did.  Emails were either not seen or forgotten by those of whom I asked the questions.  I knew no one among senior members who had been a TO at previous encampments to ask.  My personal feeling is each Wing and/or Region needs to have an encampment manual for TOs to refer to before and during encampment.  Training for TOs during pre-encampment needs to be a comprehensive class, not a briefing.  Having a training class via teleconference is a good idea, but may not be practical for every TO given time restraints due to work and so on.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2019, 05:37:40 PM »

Agree 100% - your questions should have been answered during RST, if nothing else.

No one should go into something as complex and structured as an encampment without knowing
at least the basic expectations.

This is clearly what leads to some of the issues.
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Ned
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« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2019, 05:49:30 PM »


Having just experienced my first encampment, I couldn't agree more.  Was totally in the dark on how the whole thing was structured, what was expected for TOs by the encampment staff, and so on.  Did not have clear picture of anything other than when I was to be there and when I was going home.

Did anyone refer you to the encampment guidance in CAPP 60-70?

 ("the CAP Encampment Guide")  It has an overview of the program, as well as specific expectations for TOs.


The document was meant to help answer the questions you asked of your encampment colleagues.

I know California, at least, works very hard to make sure their TOs are comfortable and experienced in their role as trainers / mentors.  Typically they ask a prospective TO to serve as an assistant TO for a flight under the guidance on an experienced TO for at least one year.  They have a fairly comprehensive chaper on TO duties and responsibilites in their Encampment Training Manual, but that is currently unavailable as they are revising other parts of that terrific resource.  Watch for it to be re-published soon.  California also has a Chief Training Officer at the encampment who is specifically charged with providing new TOs some additional training and orientation.


NHQ/CP is currently developing some webinars on encampment intenstity which is an important topic for all seniors at encampment, particularly TOs.  But as important as intensity training can be, it is only a part of the TO's role at our encampment.


What other materials would you suggest we develop and offer?


Ned Lee

National CP Manager
(Whose favorite job at encampment is TO, which I've had the pleasure of doing nearly two dozen times.)
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Eclipse
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« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2019, 05:57:21 PM »

NHQ doesn't need to create more curriculum and materials, it simply needs to enforce what is in place.
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CAPDepCom
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« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2019, 07:29:53 PM »

Did anyone refer you to the encampment guidance in CAPP 60-70?

Not that I recall.  If I missed it, then my bad.

("the CAP Encampment Guide")  It has an overview of the program, as well as specific expectations for TOs.

That would have been incredibly helpful to read beforehand, print out, and have while there.  It would have kept me from taking the time of others with newbie questions, for certain.

NHQ/CP is currently developing some webinars on encampment intenstity which is an important topic for all seniors at encampment, particularly TOs.  But as important as intensity training can be, it is only a part of the TO's role at our encampment.

Sounds like a good plan.

What other materials would you suggest we develop and offer?

I will read CAPP 60-70 and get back to you.  Or not get back to you if what I see in there seems complete on a national level.  It's possible that there are refinements which could be made at the Wing level for my location.  From what I learned via TOs who had been at at least another encampment through another Wing, I know that there were definitely differences in how things were administrated and run at the encampment I attended.  According to them, the other encampment seemed to have a better way of handling certain operations.  From what they described, I have to agree with their assessment.

Thank you so much for taking the time to respond, sir.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 07:32:58 PM by CAPDepCom » Report to moderator   Logged
Fester
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Posts: 248

« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2019, 05:53:08 AM »


Having just experienced my first encampment, I couldn't agree more.  Was totally in the dark on how the whole thing was structured, what was expected for TOs by the encampment staff, and so on.  Did not have clear picture of anything other than when I was to be there and when I was going home.

Did anyone refer you to the encampment guidance in CAPP 60-70?

 ("the CAP Encampment Guide")  It has an overview of the program, as well as specific expectations for TOs.


The document was meant to help answer the questions you asked of your encampment colleagues.

I know California, at least, works very hard to make sure their TOs are comfortable and experienced in their role as trainers / mentors.  Typically they ask a prospective TO to serve as an assistant TO for a flight under the guidance on an experienced TO for at least one year.  They have a fairly comprehensive chaper on TO duties and responsibilites in their Encampment Training Manual, but that is currently unavailable as they are revising other parts of that terrific resource.  Watch for it to be re-published soon.  California also has a Chief Training Officer at the encampment who is specifically charged with providing new TOs some additional training and orientation.


NHQ/CP is currently developing some webinars on encampment intenstity which is an important topic for all seniors at encampment, particularly TOs.  But as important as intensity training can be, it is only a part of the TO's role at our encampment.


What other materials would you suggest we develop and offer?


Ned Lee

National CP Manager
(Whose favorite job at encampment is TO, which I've had the pleasure of doing nearly two dozen times.)

I don't think more material needs to be offered.  I think more training needs to be offered.  There is a plethora of fantastic information available, but for whatever reason, it seems like it's not making it's way all the way down to the worker bees.  Hence, my suggestion that a member of NHQ CP Staff should have a mandatory teleconference with representatives of each Wing prior to the next Encampment season, for example.  Including the Wing CC, the Wing DCP and the Encampment Commander.

And that recipe could be recycled for whatever else is not effectively being disseminated. 
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1stLt, CAP
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« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2019, 06:03:55 AM »


I agree with Fester. That courtesy contact should be early in the planning season (i.e. like 10 months out) to refresh expectations, reiterate policy, and to remind them of planning and organizational tool kits available to the activity commanders being selected and appointed.
 
V/r
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Ned
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« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2019, 04:05:08 PM »


I don't think more material needs to be offered.  I think more training needs to be offered.  There is a plethora of fantastic information available, but for whatever reason, it seems like it's not making it's way all the way down to the worker bees.  Hence, my suggestion that a member of NHQ CP Staff should have a mandatory teleconference with representatives of each Wing prior to the next Encampment season, for example.  Including the Wing CC, the Wing DCP and the Encampment Commander.

And that recipe could be recycled for whatever else is not effectively being disseminated.


Normally, I would think the Region CP shops would be the primary source for encampment-related guidance for the wings.  Beyond the simple span of control issues related to 45-ish encampment staff teleconferences with NHQ/CP, regions are the folks who are closest to the wings and have the best chance to observe the conditions on the ground  and work with the staffers.

We will be doing some webinars aimed at intensity and related issues, and these will be archived and available to anyone.  But that may run into the same "worker bee" issue you've mentioned.

Perhaps the best hope for help in this arena is the new encampment visitation program being rolled out in the new 60-1 and 60-2 that will strongly encourage wings to visit each others encampments to help spread best practices for one of our premier activities for cadets.  That may well help at the worker bee level.

We also try to address the worker bee issue through the CP PD track, which calls for lots of hands-on experience tempered with the review of the rules and regs.


But, like most people, I learned how to "encampment" by going to a half-dozen or so as a cadet, and then staying around to help after turning to the Dark Side.  I was lucky to be in a wing that emphasized their encampment program, and enjoyed some great mentors and trainers.


Hopefully every wing will be able to offer quality encampments.  Almost all of them already do.


Ned Lee
National CP Manager


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Fester
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« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2019, 05:03:06 AM »


I don't think more material needs to be offered.  I think more training needs to be offered.  There is a plethora of fantastic information available, but for whatever reason, it seems like it's not making it's way all the way down to the worker bees.  Hence, my suggestion that a member of NHQ CP Staff should have a mandatory teleconference with representatives of each Wing prior to the next Encampment season, for example.  Including the Wing CC, the Wing DCP and the Encampment Commander.

And that recipe could be recycled for whatever else is not effectively being disseminated.


Normally, I would think the Region CP shops would be the primary source for encampment-related guidance for the wings.  Beyond the simple span of control issues related to 45-ish encampment staff teleconferences with NHQ/CP, regions are the folks who are closest to the wings and have the best chance to observe the conditions on the ground  and work with the staffers.

We will be doing some webinars aimed at intensity and related issues, and these will be archived and available to anyone.  But that may run into the same "worker bee" issue you've mentioned.

Perhaps the best hope for help in this arena is the new encampment visitation program being rolled out in the new 60-1 and 60-2 that will strongly encourage wings to visit each others encampments to help spread best practices for one of our premier activities for cadets.  That may well help at the worker bee level.

We also try to address the worker bee issue through the CP PD track, which calls for lots of hands-on experience tempered with the review of the rules and regs.


But, like most people, I learned how to "encampment" by going to a half-dozen or so as a cadet, and then staying around to help after turning to the Dark Side.  I was lucky to be in a wing that emphasized their encampment program, and enjoyed some great mentors and trainers.


Hopefully every wing will be able to offer quality encampments.  Almost all of them already do.


Ned Lee
National CP Manager

The CP PD track has become FAR too cumbersome.  I have 10 new Senior Members in the last 2 months.  All parents of cadets, all who want to focus on improving our CP.  When I held a meeting about PD to show them potential PD tracks, not a single one wanted to pursue a CP PD Track because of the EXTENSIVE list of tasks compared to other tracks.
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1stLt, CAP
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Ned
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« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2019, 07:04:30 PM »

The CP PD track has become FAR too cumbersome.  I have 10 new Senior Members in the last 2 months.  All parents of cadets, all who want to focus on improving our CP.  When I held a meeting about PD to show them potential PD tracks, not a single one wanted to pursue a CP PD Track because of the EXTENSIVE list of tasks compared to other tracks.

Good feedback.  We certainly worked very hard to make the CP PD track “eminently do-able” during the revision that hit the streets a couple years ago.  But perhaps we missed the mark.

Could you be more specific?  Which of the 13 listed tasks do technicians, for example, not need?  Our theory is that the average member could achieve their technician rating fairly easily in 6 months (25 ish meetings), with the possible exception of competing the TLC basic course.  Which does kind of depend on availability.

Maybe the CP PD program needs its own thread, but above you said we needed to offer more training for encampment stuff, but in your most recent post seemed to indicate that the CP PD track was too much training.

Help me to understand the difference.

Ned Lee
National CP Manager
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Fester
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« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2019, 05:41:01 AM »

The CP PD track has become FAR too cumbersome.  I have 10 new Senior Members in the last 2 months.  All parents of cadets, all who want to focus on improving our CP.  When I held a meeting about PD to show them potential PD tracks, not a single one wanted to pursue a CP PD Track because of the EXTENSIVE list of tasks compared to other tracks.

Good feedback.  We certainly worked very hard to make the CP PD track “eminently do-able” during the revision that hit the streets a couple years ago.  But perhaps we missed the mark.

Could you be more specific?  Which of the 13 listed tasks do technicians, for example, not need?  Our theory is that the average member could achieve their technician rating fairly easily in 6 months (25 ish meetings), with the possible exception of competing the TLC basic course.  Which does kind of depend on availability.

Maybe the CP PD program needs its own thread, but above you said we needed to offer more training for encampment stuff, but in your most recent post seemed to indicate that the CP PD track was too much training.

Help me to understand the difference.

Ned Lee
National CP Manager

I think you're comparing apples to oranges, sir. 

The suggestion I made about teleconferences between NHQ (or Region, as you said) CP with Wing level staff for Encampments could easily be completed in a short time span... an hour, perhaps.  Just to review the most important aspects of the new(ish) standardized requirements for Encampments.

I'm not sure which aspects of the PD track my members find cumbersome at the Technician level.  I'll try to gather that info and provide it.  My biggest uneducated (since I haven't asked) guess is that the 13 tasks are quite time consuming and maybe the fact that the Specialty Track guide itself is 70 pages long....???

I will say, however, that during the feedback time provided to the field for the new guide last year, I expressed that the Senior level requirement for an Encampment would put, for me at least, that rating beyond my reach.  Due to my career, taking a week off is undoable.  And I would imagine that I'm not the only member who would love to pursue that rating but is unable to simply because of that one required task.  Yeah, I know the response.... it doesn't require a full week, only 20 contact hours.  But how can I staff an Encampment for only 2 to 3 days and then bail?  Applied to do just that last year and was told that I would need to staff the entire week.

But I will give you this.... you asked which of the 13 listed tasks do technicians not need.  I don't see any that I would chop.
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1stLt, CAP
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« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2019, 06:50:47 AM »




But how can I staff an Encampment for only 2 to 3 days and then bail?  Applied to do just that last year and was told that I would need to staff the entire week.

Maybe a disconnect in there? If one aspect of the program (PD) requires the 20 hours, but another (CP) doesn’t provide the means (the ONLY means) to accomplish it, then there seems to be a need for a “meeting of the minds.”

I have staffed many encampments, have commanded one and have been a “part timer” at three. By part-time, I mean being there at the beginning to help get it launched, bring st the end to help get it saddled up and moved out, and being there for 3 days, leaving for a couple of days and returning for the end. Nobody ever refused my help. As an Encampment Commander, I never turned anyone away who volunteered to help either.

However - I fully understood that my part timer status would not allow me to hold down a serious position. It would be disruptive to be introduced as a TO and then leave after two days. And coming in at the middle wouldn’t allow me to dethrone anyone. It went without saying that I or anyone else in the same circumstance would pick up odds and ends, run errands, cover for people for short periods, answer the phone, process admin matters, etc.

About the only reasons I could see for turning anyone away as a part-timer would be logistical (literally no beds left) or in planning (just showing up without asking and therefore unprepared to perform needed tasks).



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SarDragon
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« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2019, 02:09:04 PM »

I think you're comparing apples to oranges, sir. 

The suggestion I made about teleconferences between NHQ (or Region, as you said) CP with Wing level staff for Encampments could easily be completed in a short time span... an hour, perhaps.  Just to review the most important aspects of the new(ish) standardized requirements for Encampments.

I'm not sure which aspects of the PD track my members find cumbersome at the Technician level.  I'll try to gather that info and provide it.  My biggest uneducated (since I haven't asked) guess is that the 13 tasks are quite time consuming and maybe the fact that the Specialty Track guide itself is 70 pages long.... ???


I will say, however, that during the feedback time provided to the field for the new guide last year, I expressed that the Senior level requirement for an Encampment would put, for me at least, that rating beyond my reach.  Due to my career, taking a week off is undoable.  And I would imagine that I'm not the only member who would love to pursue that rating but is unable to simply because of that one required task.  Yeah, I know the response.... it doesn't require a full week, only 20 contact hours.  But how can I staff an Encampment for only 2 to 3 days and then bail?  Applied to do just that last year and was told that I would need to staff the entire week.

But I will give you this.... you asked which of the 13 listed tasks do technicians not need.  I don't see any that I would chop.
I just looked at the new CP pamphlet. Yes, it certainly has 70 pages. Let's break that down:
8 pdf pages - intro
52 pages - how to, covering entire program; split three ways - about 17 pages per level
2 pages - tech tasks
2 pages - senior tasks
1.5 pages - master tasks
remainder - lacking meaningful content

So there are really only about 27 pages for a member to master for a tech rating. Accomplishing the 13 tasks in a 6 month period doesn't seem difficult, except, as noted above, the TLC course.

More later. I'm traveling right now.
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Dave Bowles
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Paul Creed III
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« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2019, 04:11:11 PM »

So there are really only about 27 pages for a member to master for a tech rating. Accomplishing the 13 tasks in a 6 month period doesn't seem difficult, except, as noted above, the TLC course.

More later. I'm traveling right now.

TLC Basic is available online from COWG. The course being taught online is fully approved by NHQ CP (per a direct conversation I had with Curt).

http://cowgreg.org/cgi-bin/event_sign.cgi
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Lt Col Paul Creed III, CAP
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National Headquarters Photography Working Group
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time With Silver Clasp
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« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2019, 05:19:14 PM »

Is this a video conference type situation?
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Paul Creed III
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« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2019, 12:39:05 AM »

Is this a video conference type situation?

I believe it is synchronous video, yes.
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CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Encampments & NCSAs  |  Topic: Encampment policy reminders - 2019
 


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