Quiet and Casual defunding of CD not being discussed

Started by Eclipse, July 03, 2019, 05:11:23 pm

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Eclipse




etodd

So ... if funding and hours are increasing even though grass is being legalized ... leads me to ask what else is included in CD missions, other than looking for marijuana fields?  Maybe its a secret.
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

Eclipse

July 06, 2019, 04:13:51 am #22 Last Edit: July 06, 2019, 04:19:02 am by Eclipse
Funding and hours, are in fact, not increasing.

2016 was actually the last significant year for CD, with a precipitous drop off in flight hours since.
Only 6 wings are still flying any CD at all.




OldGuy

Quote from: Eclipse on July 06, 2019, 04:13:51 am
2016 was actually the last significant year for CD, with a precipitous drop off in flight hours since.

2017 - $1, 257,794
2016 -     $871,871

Idd, that looks like a MAJOR increase to me. Facts are hard.

Eclipse

^ Yes, they apparently are.

Have you, by chance, reviewed the actual flight hours and sortie statistics
for the last four fiscal years?

You might want to before making any more assertions.



Fester

Quote from: Eclipse on July 06, 2019, 06:04:15 am
^ Yes, they apparently are.

Have you, by chance, reviewed the actual flight hours and sortie statistics
for the last four fiscal years?

You might want to before making any more assertions.


You made the assertion that funds AND flight hours were decreasing.  I don't know where OldGuy got his numbers, but if they are accurate, it is abundantly clear that funds are NOT decreasing.  Seeing as there was ~50% increase from 2016 to 2017.
1stLt, CAP
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Group CPO
Eaker - 1996

Eclipse

After reviewing the annual reports cited, these numbers make even less sense,
especially considering the substantial drop in hours.


Note that "contributed flying" for 2016 is suspiciously the exact same number
as the hours flown(?). 

Yet in 2017...

That line item is now over 264k, and the CD hours are not called out
separately in the report as they are in 2016.

The FY2018 CD budget is 1,129,648.

That's 128k less then 2018. Also note that "contributed flying" is also
about 1/2 year-to year.

One can only imagine what "facility maintenance" is, which seems to be
holding these budget numbers so high.

In FY2016, CAP flew 9682 hours counterdrug.

In FY2017 it was down to 6138.

In FY2018 is was down to 3540 with only 6 states flying CD.
(It also appears some HLS is in there?)

FY2019 is on a track to be lower then 2018.



etodd

How does CD have a $22,000 telephone bill?  How many people have dedicated CD cell phones? ;)
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

etodd

Quote from: Eclipse on July 06, 2019, 06:52:29 am

One can only imagine what "facility maintenance" is, which seems to be
holding these budget numbers so high.



Maybe if a Squadron does at least one CD mission a year, the CD budget will pay their hangar rent for the entire year?  LOL
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

Flying Pig

Ive always found it somewhat amusing to know a CAP plane is in a CD mission, and hear it doing approaches with a missed to the hold over and over again for 2 hours  8)  CD has been more than "looking for weed".  Its not a huge secret, but I wont go in to that here.   But give it a couple years I think you'll see it dry up unless the definition of CD becomes more broad.  I've been out of it for a while, but I was the LE Liason for CAWG for a while.  It was a booming business there for a while.  I was flying several times per month 2-3 days in a row.  It seemed that the CD roles were mophing in to what looked more like what I would call a homeland security missions vs looking for dope. 

dwb

*bump*

This topic was addressed by Maj Gen Smith in his interview on the Breaking Ranks podcast (a good podcast, with the boss being perhaps the best episode yet).

CD is a partner mission with state law enforcement, but CAP nationally was bearing most of the financial burden. With the pie being finite, CAP made a decision to only continue CD missions in states where the state government would share the cost. Quite a few states did not offer funding, which is why you've seen such a precipitous drop in missions.

Dwight Dutton

Quote from: Eclipse on July 06, 2019, 06:52:29 amIn FY2018 is was down to 3540 with only 6 states flying CD.


Wow.  I flew 2% of CAP's CD missions myself last year (131 Hours)

etodd

August 01, 2019, 03:17:22 pm #32 Last Edit: August 01, 2019, 03:24:31 pm by etodd
Quote from: dwb on August 01, 2019, 12:54:40 pm


CD is a partner mission with state law enforcement, but CAP nationally was bearing most of the financial burden. ...



Whats the history of that? Why did CAP volunteer to fly these for free in the beginning? The states should have always paid.
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

OldGuy

Quote from: dwb on August 01, 2019, 12:54:40 pm
*bump*

This topic was addressed by Maj Gen Smith in his interview on the Breaking Ranks podcast (a good podcast, with the boss being perhaps the best episode yet).

CD is a partner mission with state law enforcement, but CAP nationally was bearing most of the financial burden. With the pie being finite, CAP made a decision to only continue CD missions in states where the state government would share the cost. Quite a few states did not offer funding, which is why you've seen such a precipitous drop in missions.

Facts! How cool, thanks.

Holding Pattern

Quote from: etodd on August 01, 2019, 03:17:22 pm
Quote from: dwb on August 01, 2019, 12:54:40 pm


CD is a partner mission with state law enforcement, but CAP nationally was bearing most of the financial burden. ...



Whats the history of that? Why did CAP volunteer to fly these for free in the beginning? The states should have always paid.


A lot of initial programs get "self-funded" to prove their worth to partner agencies before switching to a different model.

etodd

Quote from: Holding Pattern on August 01, 2019, 04:28:36 pm

A lot of initial programs get "self-funded" to prove their worth to partner agencies before switching to a different model.


Ah yes. The ... "Work for free and you'll get lots of exposure" concept.

Can work out sometimes, but after the first or second job, they know the value. Pay up or it stops.
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

Eclipse

August 01, 2019, 05:52:10 pm #36 Last Edit: August 01, 2019, 09:16:26 pm by Eclipse
Except that in many cases CAP doesn't mention the real expense of the mission until afterwards,
and /or doesn't pre-qualify that the agency in question even has the funding to pay for CAP
costs, minimal though they may be, regardless.

So...now that what was asserted, supported by data to begin with, has been confirmed by HEADCAP
where are the 30+ airplanes worth of hours going to come from?





OldGuy

Quote from: Eclipse on August 01, 2019, 05:52:10 pm
Except that in many cases CAP doesn't mention the real expense of the mission until afterwards,
and /or doesn't pre-qualify that the agency in question even has the funding to pay for CAP
costs, minimal though they may be, regardless.

So...now that what asserted, supported by data to begin with, has been confirmed by HEADCAP
where are the 30+ airplanes worth of hours going to come from?

I'd ask your wing CD officer. Captalk really is not the right venue for that discussion, in my opinion.

Eclipse

Quote from: OldGuy on August 01, 2019, 08:56:43 pm
Quote from: Eclipse on August 01, 2019, 05:52:10 pm
Except that in many cases CAP doesn't mention the real expense of the mission until afterwards,
and /or doesn't pre-qualify that the agency in question even has the funding to pay for CAP
costs, minimal though they may be, regardless.

So...now that what asserted, supported by data to begin with, has been confirmed by HEADCAP
where are the 30+ airplanes worth of hours going to come from?

I'd ask your wing CD officer. Captalk really is not the right venue for that discussion, in my opinion.


The what now? This isn't a mission any more in the majority of the wings. The spots are vacant
and they aren't re-qualing the aircews who were flying the missions.

CD's off the table, and UAV flights don't count.  At some point losing 10%+ of your flight hours
annually has to have a consequence of some kind, and that consequence is likely fleet reduction.



SarDragon

That's funny. We have a really active CD mission here in CAWG. My group does one weekend a month, and there are two other groups who also do the mission. There hasn't been any decline announced. The current schedule runs through October.
Dave Bowles
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