May 25, 2020, 02:36:59 am

IMSAFE

Started by Randy, July 03, 2019, 04:23:04 pm

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Randy

Are scanners and observers held to same standards as CAP pilots relating to antidepressant medication?

jeders

All aircrew members should be held to the same standards for safe and professional conduct. Whether or not individual FROs hold any aircrew members to those standards is an entirely different matter.
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

Randy

Thanks! That has always been my opinion and can't find any written statement with a different  interpretation .

NovemberWhiskey

Quote from: jeders on July 03, 2019, 04:43:43 pm
All aircrew members should be held to the same standards for safe and professional conduct. Whether or not individual FROs hold any aircrew members to those standards is an entirely different matter.


I'm not sure that's an entirely helpful answer - the responsibilities of a Mission Pilot and a Mission Scanner are different and their training/qualification requirements reflect that. Mission Pilots require an FAA medical (to which the antidepressant question is relevant); Mission Scanners do not. Mission Pilots requires 200 hours of PIC time; Mission Scanners do not. As such, the standards to participate are different in meaningful ways.

Do you have in mind an alternate set of standards (that goes beyond the general commitment to aircrew professionalism) specifically as that relates to antidepressants?

Eclipse

My understanding has always been that the FRO checklists, based on common sense,
apply to the crew, and the PIC is answering for the crew, who he is responsible,
however "CAP being CAP", some language to that effect might be warranted.

Having an alert and ready PIC with a drunk / sleepy / head-colded / sad aircrew isn't
going to make things Safe-Efficient-Effective.



CFToaster

What specific concerns to you have about antidepressants, Randy?

Randy

Thanks for the replies. As a scanner/ observer I have chosen to not fly with a cold and head congestion. Crew members should never jeopardize the mission or other crew members. Fortunately we have members self reporting and making good decisions.

Randy

Thanks November Wiskey. Good observation and reasonings. Appreciate the contribution.

coudano

Hmm, first off, i think this definitely belongs in aviation... IMSAFE is a specifically aviation related self-check list that pilot/aircrew takes pre-flight.

Pilots have medical restrictions placed on them by the FAA and whatever class of physical they hold/exercise.
No, Observers and Scanners are not held to FAA standards for that purpose, and don't have to have any medical certificate (not even Basic Med) to fly on a CAP Crew.   I do not believe that CAP "Aircrew" counts in the same context as an airplanes "Crew" as defined by the FAA.

As far as the IMSAFE checklist, yes everyone on the CAP airplane should self-reflect, and if IM-NOT-SAFE then shouldn't go.  Period.  If a MO/MS doesn't feel IMSAFE for -any- reason (including feeling side effects or maybe a little over or under balance on meds to the point that they aren't comfortable flying) then the go/no-go decision just got REALLY easy for that person.  No-Go.  If that causes a mission fail, then it causes a mission fail.  Better IMSAFE than sorry.

It's not the FRO's job to Spanish Inquisition the crew about their IMSAFE compliance...  When I FRO, I ask the pilot...  Are you and everyone on board IMSAFE?  When they answer yes, I check the box and move on.


Randy

Thank you sir, great reply

CFToaster

I know it's slightly unorthodox, but I feel like the M in IMSAFE should be taught as both, "Are you taking any medications that can adversely affect your performance," AND, "Have you taken the medications you need to in order to perform safely and effectively."

It wouldn't do any good to have your pilot stroke out because they forgot to take their blood pressure medication, or your mission scanner can't focus because they didn't take their ADHD meds.

Remember that under potentially austere mission circumstances, people's routines are disrupted (I usually take my pill when I go to bed, but we were up late setting up the BOO," and their logistics are impaired, "I ran out of pills because this mission ran longer than expected."

Feel free to consult with a HSO about the specific aeromedical effects of specific medications or contingency plans for resupply members who may have run out of meds. As an HSO myself, I'd be happy to field such questions either here or via PM.

Randy

Great reply, thanks.

TheSkyHornet

Quote from: Randy on July 03, 2019, 09:26:19 pm
Thanks for the replies. As a scanner/ observer I have chosen to not fly with a cold and head congestion.


That's more linked to the fact that you're going to upset your ears, not disrupt the mission. It's a physiological concern.

CFToaster

Remember, there is a broader spectrum of options than go/no-go.

If an air crew member is feeling suboptimal, they can always say "no-go," and not be compelled to give a reason.

However, if they feel they can still safely execute the mission at reduced capacity, they have an obligation to inform their leaders of this.

"I've got a head cold. I can safely fly as MO, but may be at reduced effectiveness. Is there someone else who can fly this mission? Do you want to scrub it? Do you want to alter the search pattern?"