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Curiousquestions
Newbie

Posts: 3
Unit: 000

« on: June 26, 2019, 09:05:11 PM »

So am I understanding this correctly? This says if I’m a CAP member and called out to volunteer. I or anyone cannot be fired from our jobs because of this reasoning? Just want to double check.

Thank you

https://www.blr.com/HR-Employment/Benefits-Leave/Military-Service-USERRA-in-Tennessee
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Luis R. Ramos
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Posts: 2,783

« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2019, 09:15:12 PM »

It looks that way. But you have to wait until you are called. Not all states have that clause, some do, others do not.
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Squadron Safety Officer
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Eclipse
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« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2019, 10:07:36 PM »

Many states have CAP leave acts, generally they require some sort of order or callout.

The reality, though, is that other then union or collective bargaining situations where the
language might need to be in a contract, if you have to pull out a statute to be allowed
to leave your job to volunteer in a time of crisis, you're probably not in a position to be going.

For what it's worth, the intention here is real-world missions (Katrina, Sandy, etc.), not encampments,
NESA, or similar, though many employers allow for, or even encourage volunteerism by employees (some even semi-require it).

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Curiousquestions
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« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2019, 10:11:26 PM »

Well. I work a job not involved in ES or things related to the state, volunteer,i.e,..

Thanks too both!
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Curiousquestions
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« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2019, 10:13:08 PM »

Well. I work a job not involved in ES or things related to the state, volunteer,i.e,..

Thanks too both!

Plus making sure my bosses won’t turn around and fire me if I something were to occur
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arajca
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Posts: 4,382

« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2019, 10:42:23 PM »

You need to have a discussion with your boss well before hand.
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TheSkyHornet
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« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2019, 11:49:25 PM »

Doing your homework is definitely the first step (which looks like is the case here). Next, you'll want to schedule some time and sit down with your HR department and explain the law and what your role in CAP is (be prepared to offer the elevator speech on what CAP is). You'll want to cite the law from your official state code and not a company website copy/paste. Make sure it's the official source.

I happen to be in a state that is a no-no on the emergency call-up. My employer could say "No, you're not going."
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PHall
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Posts: 6,585

« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2019, 12:02:34 AM »

And CAP is NOT covered by the Employer Support of the Guard and Reserve program.

Even if you're in the Guard or Reserve you need to have a sit down with your boss so that they know what's going on and so you know what your employer's expectations are.

The absolutely worst thing you can do is to blind side them with a "hey I have a CAP call out and I won't be at work for a couple of days" without prepping them first.
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Live2Learn
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« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2019, 05:08:13 AM »

And CAP is NOT covered by the Employer Support of the Guard and Reserve program.

...

The absolutely worst thing you can do is to blind side them with a "hey I have a CAP call out and I won't be at work for a couple of days" without prepping them first.

So, what is your gotta-drop-everything role in a SAR/DR operation?  Are you a IC, AOBD, MP, or what?  Why do you HAVE to drop everything and go?  Every time?   There are times when just one employee responding to the fire siren can cost a company or agency big bucks in project delays, idled people, missed deadlines, etc.  I agree with advice to talk with your boss and HR (if there is one).  Work out when you can go, for how long, who can/will cover for you when absent in your volunteer DR/SAR activity, and when you need to tend to the home front first.
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Mitchell 1969
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« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2019, 07:07:28 AM »

So am I understanding this correctly? This says if I’m a CAP member and called out to volunteer. I or anyone cannot be fired from our jobs because of this reasoning? Just want to double check.

Thank you

https://www.blr.com/HR-Employment/Benefits-Leave/Military-Service-USERRA-in-Tennessee

Maybe not fired for responding to a CAP call out or two. But annoy the boss enough and you could find out, the hard way, that somebody has been clicking a stop watch for your lunch breaks and you could get fired for those extra 5 minutes twice a week.

In short - tread lightly. And, no surprises, where you jump up, grab your coat and flee. You’ll need to let your boss and the HR people what CAP is.


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Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
etodd
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« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2019, 05:26:25 PM »


... where you jump up, grab your coat and flee.


I imagine the actual number who can do that is very small.  When the Wing DO starts sending out word to all the pilots in our Wing that a crew is needed for an ELT Mission, sometimes it takes awhile to get a crew going. So few can actually jump and run.  Having large numbers of trained crews is crucial. So that maybe "someone" will be available at any given time.
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MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO

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CFToaster
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« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2019, 06:55:55 PM »

I benefit from a similar law on the books for Florida. Ours has many of the same provisions as the Tennessee law cited, but is limited to 15 days per year. I work for a large organization that uses an outside contractor for benefits management (including FMLA and USERRA leave). I explained my activity in CAP to my boss, she spoke to HR, and the third-party benefits management company already had pre-filled paperwork specifically for Florida CAP leave.

I'm fairly autonomous in my position, so I clear my calendar when possible for days that I'll be on leave. If something can't be canceled or rescheduled, I arrange for my colleagues to cover me.

I've used my leave for ground team training, IS-300, and serving as HSO at Sun n' Fun without a hitch. YMMV
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Mitchell 1969
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« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2019, 08:23:07 AM »


... where you jump up, grab your coat and flee.


I imagine the actual number who can do that is very small.  When the Wing DO starts sending out word to all the pilots in our Wing that a crew is needed for an ELT Mission, sometimes it takes awhile to get a crew going. So few can actually jump and run.  Having large numbers of trained crews is crucial. So that maybe "someone" will be available at any given time.

Indeed. But, if you do not believe that there are people in CAP who would do exactly as I described (leap out of their seats and leave because of an emergency, believing that “that law” exempts them from explaining or planning, then you don’t know CAP very well!

On a somewhat related note - I long ago lost track of the number of CAP people who seemed to believe that they were exempt from traffic laws and that police had an obligation to help them reach their “mission base” because of the wording on the back of the old blue membership cards.


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Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
abdsp51
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« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2019, 12:40:17 PM »


... where you jump up, grab your coat and flee.


I imagine the actual number who can do that is very small.  When the Wing DO starts sending out word to all the pilots in our Wing that a crew is needed for an ELT Mission, sometimes it takes awhile to get a crew going. So few can actually jump and run.  Having large numbers of trained crews is crucial. So that maybe "someone" will be available at any given time.

Indeed. But, if you do not believe that there are people in CAP who would do exactly as I described (leap out of their seats and leave because of an emergency, believing that “that law” exempts them from explaining or planning, then you don’t know CAP very well!

On a somewhat related note - I long ago lost track of the number of CAP people who seemed to believe that they were exempt from traffic laws and that police had an obligation to help them reach their “mission base” because of the wording on the back of the old blue membership cards.


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Probably the same folks who thought that CAP membership allowed them to put flashing lights and a siren in their car..  Ran into that a few times and one guy was such a nuisance he got a visit from the PD.
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Live2Learn
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« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2019, 03:37:44 PM »


... where you jump up, grab your coat and flee.


I imagine the actual number who can do that is very small.  When the Wing DO starts sending out word to all the pilots in our Wing that a crew is needed for an ELT Mission, sometimes it takes awhile to get a crew going. So few can actually jump and run.  Having large numbers of trained crews is crucial. So that maybe "someone" will be available at any given time.

Indeed. But, if you do not believe that there are people in CAP who would do exactly as I described (leap out of their seats and leave because of an emergency, believing that “that law” exempts them from explaining or planning, then you don’t know CAP very well!

On a somewhat related note - I long ago lost track of the number of CAP people who seemed to believe that they were exempt from traffic laws and that police had an obligation to help them reach their “mission base” because of the wording on the back of the old blue membership cards.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Probably the same folks who thought that CAP membership allowed them to put flashing lights and a siren in their car..  Ran into that a few times and one guy was such a nuisance he got a visit from the PD.

While most CAP ES people seem aware that there's a "V" in "Volunteer", and that ranks are somewhat honorariums, a few members do not.  Fortunately, in my experience, that's a tiny minority number.  Some units I've seen deal with problem SM behaviors directly, some do not.  For awhile this group had a few  CAP "Officers" who expected salutes from USAF EM at a nearby AFB.  It took awhile to nip that problem.  Again, IMHO, it's far better for CAP to deal with individual wannabe issues that can reflect poorly on the entire organization than to sit back and let some bonifide official of any government entity deal with it.
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wingnut55
Seasoned Member

Posts: 356

« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2019, 12:29:27 PM »

FYI

Some states have passed State laws allowing often up to two weeks for CAP missions, However, you have to clear this with your employer beforehand
and the reality is many employers will not let you take time off for CAP much less Guard or reserve, regardless of the law. If you do take time off they may find a way to get rid of you. But, if you work for a Federal, State, or Local government you will have better protection.

Back to CAP, working through my Human resource (personnel), I was told that I needed some type of verification in writing from CAP, or the Air Force. Luckily my boss was a retired Marine officer and after conferring with my Squadron commander, we were able to draft a set of "orders" or a written
directive that stated I was going to be flying on a mission (With mission number) and using the description of what an AFAM is from the regulation, etc, etc.
I never used this set of "orders" for SAREXs, or other non-essential CAP activities, only for A missions directly relating to Air Force assigned missions. The document signed by my Squadron Commander was placed in my personnel file both in CAP and my employer, one document for each mission.

Much to my surprise, the personnel director authorized me to receive full pay when ever I was on a AFAM, since it was the policy to pay all employees for the first two weeks (80 hours max) of military or Government service. I never abused the privileges, and only took the time off for a day or two as needed. But, and this is a big But, you must be very diplomatic and take care to educate people about the CAP mission and your direct involvement. Over a two year period I was able to fly for over 300 hours on AFAMS, and either I used the max 80 hours off, in conjunction with my 4 weeks of annual leave to be available for missions all over the western US. At the time I was an ARCHER operator so I flew a lot. with the UAS program coming it would be a way for you to be part of a UAS operation, remember the UAS program will be part of FEMA response to disasters, actual SAR missions, and eventually ANTI drone programs. 

Remember, you need to familiarize your bosses and HR about CAP, and be professional in how you approach them. Most likely if you are successful you probably won't get paid for your CAP time by your employer. (some employers allow time with pay for community volunteer work).  Don't listen to the
negative people on CAP TALK, my father flew for CAP while working for the Federal Government and he always got to fly on missions while receiving his US government pay, this was in the 1950s,60s, and 70s. The problem is the idiots who screw this up for everyone else by lying to their bosses and abusing the system. 
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Dwight Dutton
Seasoned Member

Posts: 217

« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2019, 08:20:45 PM »

Probably the same folks who thought that CAP membership allowed them to put flashing lights and a siren in their car..  Ran into that a few times and one guy was such a nuisance he got a visit from the PD.

In the 1980's when I was in NJ wing those got fairly common, until someone running code 3 to find an ELT got stopped by the highway patrol.  The following night our AT&T 300 baud teletypewriter spit out a packet message saying that all light bars would be covered when acting in any CAP capacity
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