May 25, 2020, 07:36:27 am

Encampment at Scott AFB

Started by xray328, June 17, 2019, 09:17:31 pm

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xray328

Just came across this...

https://www.bnd.com/news/local/community/scott-afb/article231595998.html

Why doesn't ILWG go to Scott AFB for summer encampment? Distance?  It'd sure be nice for them to get exposure to an active duty Air Force installation.


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abdsp51

There is alot that goes into encampments.  The installation has to be able to accomodate the influx and still function and requires alot of coordination.

AZWG hosts it traditionally at an air park and CAWG traditonally hosts theirs at Camp San Luis Obispo but these as usually set up way in advance.   From what I know ILWG usually goes to Great Lakes. 

I was actually trying to get an encampment done at Davis-Monthan but it fell through. 

jeders

Quote from: abdsp51 on June 17, 2019, 09:35:10 pm
From what I know ILWG usually goes to Great Lakes. 


There's a great deal to consider, but my uneducated guess is that this is the main reason why they don't use Scott. No need to go fixing something that isn't broken.
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

xray328

June 17, 2019, 09:39:30 pm #3 Last Edit: June 17, 2019, 09:44:20 pm by xray328
ILWG held its Summer Encampment in Springfield for many years and recently moved to Marseilles, both Army NG.  Spring is at Great Lakes.

They don't seem to have an issue hosting AFJROTC cadets from four states.  Maybe something to look into.  Again though, distance might play a part, Scott's not exactly central Illinois.


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Spaceman3750

Quote from: xray328 on June 17, 2019, 09:39:30 pm
ILWG held its Summer Encampment in Springfield for many years and recently moved to Marseilles, both Army NG.  Spring is at Great Lakes.

They don't seem to have an issue hosting AFJROTC cadets from four states.  Maybe something to look into.  Again though, distance might play a part, Scott's not exactly central Illinois.


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It's been explored by the encampment staff.

Sapper168

I am the Commandant of cadets for IL Summer Encampment.  We looked into Scott AFB.  The factor that made it a no-go is, there are no facilities or lodging available for use of an encampment sized group.  We even looked into being able to set up a 'tent city' for lodging and really the other options available were much better.
Shane E Guernsey, TSgt, CAP
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CAP Squadron NCO Advisor... "Where is the coffee located?"
US Army 12B... "Sappers Lead the Way!"
US Army Reserve 71L-f5... "Going Postal!"

xray328

Quote from: Sapper168 on June 17, 2019, 09:57:44 pm
I am the Commandant of cadets for IL Summer Encampment.  We looked into Scott AFB.  The factor that made it a no-go is, there are no facilities or lodging available for use of an encampment sized group.  We even looked into being able to set up a 'tent city' for lodging and really the other options available were much better.


I'm interested to see what AFJROTC did, the article said they hosted 120 cadets from four states.


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PHall

Quote from: xray328 on June 17, 2019, 10:00:21 pm
Quote from: Sapper168 on June 17, 2019, 09:57:44 pm
I am the Commandant of cadets for IL Summer Encampment.  We looked into Scott AFB.  The factor that made it a no-go is, there are no facilities or lodging available for use of an encampment sized group.  We even looked into being able to set up a 'tent city' for lodging and really the other options available were much better.


I'm interested to see what AFJROTC did, the article said they hosted 120 cadets from four states.


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Air Force Bases usually don't have a barracks or enough vacant billeting rooms available to handle an encampment, especially a large one.
When AFROTC used to have a number of Field Training facilities spread around the country we could usually use those.
But they consolidated all AFROTC Field Training at Maxwell AFB, AL in about 1992 and the other sites were torn down (i.e. Vandenberg AFB), the base it was on closed (i.e. McCllean AFB) or the facilities are not available any more (i.e. Fairchild AFB).

This is why many encampments are now held on Army National Guard facilities. They have barracks, classrooms and messing facilities and are available to us.

xray328

Quote from: PHall on June 17, 2019, 11:24:11 pm
Quote from: xray328 on June 17, 2019, 10:00:21 pm
Quote from: Sapper168 on June 17, 2019, 09:57:44 pm
I am the Commandant of cadets for IL Summer Encampment.  We looked into Scott AFB.  The factor that made it a no-go is, there are no facilities or lodging available for use of an encampment sized group.  We even looked into being able to set up a 'tent city' for lodging and really the other options available were much better.


I'm interested to see what AFJROTC did, the article said they hosted 120 cadets from four states.


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Air Force Bases usually don't have a barracks or enough vacant billeting rooms available to handle an encampment, especially a large one.
When AFROTC used to have a number of Field Training facilities spread around the country we could usually use those.
But they consolidated all AFROTC Field Training at Maxwell AFB, AL in about 1992 and the other sites were torn down (i.e. Vandenberg AFB), the base it was on closed (i.e. McCllean AFB) or the facilities are not available any more (i.e. Fairchild AFB).

This is why many encampments are now held on Army National Guard facilities. They have barracks, classrooms and messing facilities and are available to us.


That's been the reason I've heard in the past as well.  Just surprised that Air Force JUNIOR ROTC is currently making use of the installation.  Same sort of program, probably twice the size of our summer encampment (what'd we have - 60 cadets?) Maybe time to revisit this?  In reading over the article it's pretty much exactly what we'd do there.


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Jester

June 18, 2019, 03:03:53 am #9 Last Edit: June 18, 2019, 03:12:30 am by Jester
I've been trying to find out where AFJROTC puts those kids for 3 years now and haven't gotten an answer.

Lots of people have tried to crack this nut, me included. 




PHall

Quote from: Jester on June 18, 2019, 03:03:53 am
I've been trying to find out where AFJROTC puts those kids for 3 years now and haven't gotten an answer.

Lots of people have tried to crack this nut, me included.


How many billeting rooms does Scott have?  I did an encampment at Norton AFB back in the 70's where we stayed in the Inland House, base billeting.
Norton had about 200 billeting rooms back then.

Jester

It's possible but I can't think of a less encampment-like environment than that. They just opened the new billeting a year or so ago, old one got torn down.



PHall

Quote from: Jester on June 18, 2019, 04:32:02 am
It's possible but I can't think of a less encampment-like environment than that. They just opened the new billeting a year or so ago, old one got torn down.


Beggers aren't choosers. You use what you can get and AFJROTC Leadership Camps are not exactly Basic Training...

xray328

June 18, 2019, 11:55:32 am #14 Last Edit: June 18, 2019, 12:00:02 pm by xray328
Given this "Total Force" deal it'd be nice to see them offer us the opportunity to attend, sounds like a good time.. The RTC has been very good to us over the past 28 years but it is kind of a shame our cadets don't get to see active duty AF operations as much as these AFJROTC cadets do.  I know we have several NCSA's on active duty AF bases, but the ones I've seen don't get the cadets outside the activity and involved in AF as a whole.  Nothing against them of course, just another one of those "it'd be nice" things I guess.


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Slim

June 19, 2019, 08:20:47 am #15 Last Edit: June 19, 2019, 08:32:32 am by Slim
it never used to be that way.

For the better part of 40 years, MIWG has held their encampment at the same facility.  Originally, it was called Phelps-Collins ANGB, but the name changed in the mid 90s to Alpena CRTC.  Also, up until around that same timeframe, we were required to have a "Host" unit, typically air guard, who would support us logistically (food services, billeting, etc).  They were usually guard units deployed there doing their two week's summer training.  But on rare occasions, we'd have an active duty unit; the one year I remember, we had the 380th BMW from Plattsburgh AFB.  We always got all kinds of support from the hosts, including shop tours and mission briefings.  But the big thing was atmosphere; our people interacting with theirs, flight ops in progress (learned to love twilight FB-111 AB takeoffs), orientation flights if they were a tanker or airlift unit, etc.  At the same time, we'd bus every cadet an hour down the road to Wurtsmith AFB (379th BMW, B-52s/KC-135s) for tours.  That all changed when the base decided we could support ourselves easier than relying on a unit (there was a time after Gulf War I where units had no funding to deploy for training).  Also about that time, the first round of 90s era BRAC closures swept up Wurtsmith.  These days, MIWG has the base to itself and it can be kinda quiet.  There are less than 100 permanent party guardsmen on the base, most if it is run by contractors now.  It's nice being alone and not having to fight for support, but the atmosphere just isn't the same.

We went to Wright Patterson in 1991, when Alpena wasn't available.  Great base, lots of cool to see and do, including the AF Museum.  We used the old AFROTC barracks on what was then called the Kitty Hawk area.  We were there for our week, turned the barracks over to Ohio Wing for their encampment the week after, and the Air Force started demolition on those buildings the week after they were done with them.

The two years after that, we went to Wurtsmith and Camp Grayling (an Army guard maneuver center).  Wurtsmth was fine, but was closing.  We got a lot of the old tours and support we used to have.  But there were only about 250 people and maybe four airplanes left there.  We were housed in a three story dorm.  Grayling was ok, but very spartan; bare concrete floors, cinder block walls, and there were a lot of challenges for the cadets to overcome and get used to. 

Looking at it realistically, there aren't many air force bases nowadays that have empty dorms just waiting for CAP to come in for a week every year to use.  The only places that come to mind would be Lackland, and maybe the tech training bases like Keesler and Goodfellow between school cycles.  There are four CRTCs around the country - Alpena in Michigan, Volk Field in Wisconsin (which WIWG uses for their encampment), Savannah, GA and Gulfport MS.  I don't know if GA and MS have ever used either, but they are there.  OTOH, just about every state has at least one Fort or Camp dedicated to Army National Guard training (we're fortunate to have two in MI, Camp Grayling up north, and Fort Custer in the southwest part of the state).  Army facilities are much more readily available, and more plentiful  than Air Force facilities. 


Indiana Wing uses Camp Atterbury, but they aren't really even on the post.  The barracks facilities they use are actually about a mile north of the main post.  Its a great facility, about 4 years old now, but we're out in the middle of nowhere basically.  There are a few things we do that are held on the main post, but for the most part, we're off by ourselves.  If you were at NESA last year, or going this year, it's the same facility.


All that being said, one of my former cadets is a CMSgt at AMC HQ at Scott.  If you really really wanted an answer, I could probably reach out to him and ask.



Slim

GaryVC

Interesting. I was in the 380th BMW from Plattsburgh AFB from 1974 to 1980. Tanker navigator and then wing staff.

xray328

Yeah, just curious.  I've got a feeling they're at the Scott Inn.  Two cadets to a room would only take 1/4 of their availability.  And it's not that we'd need to run an encampment there, but an invitation to join them (maybe 10-15?) would be nice.  They advertise it as a summer leadership seminar vs an encampment anyway. When my daughter went to RCLS in INWG a handful of Navy JROTC cadets were invited to attend. It was a nice gesture.


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jeders

Quote from: xray328 on June 19, 2019, 04:44:15 pm
They advertise it as a summer leadership seminar vs an encampment anyway.


AFJROTC Summer Leadership Seminar is their equivalent to encampment. In fact, CAP cadets who complete AFJROTC SLS are eligible for encampment credit.
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

MSG Mac

Quote from: jeders on June 19, 2019, 08:14:10 pm
Quote from: xray328 on June 19, 2019, 04:44:15 pm
They advertise it as a summer leadership seminar vs an encampment anyway.


AFJROTC Summer Leadership Seminar is their equivalent to encampment. In fact, CAP cadets who complete AFJROTC SLS are eligible for encampment credit.


But not the ribbon
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