May 28, 2020, 06:10:02 pm

Squadron Problems

Started by CapStranger, June 14, 2019, 03:14:27 am

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CapStranger

So this is my first time posting in this account.
Recently I just discovered that my squadron has some senior member problems. it is a composite squadron and I am on cadet staff. the senior members do not listen to what the cadet staff is telling them resulting in the squadron going downhill. one of the cadet officers (a c/Capt) brought it up very respectfully what was going on with them not listening and showing favoritism, he was suspended and was a couple of months later reinstated. another cadet officer was the XO and resigned and recommended a new officer for the position, he got in trouble for "enforcing his will on the CC"( respectfully telling the CC his recommendation for a new XO). Our squadron is seriously going downhill, we have around 15 cadets that come to every meeting with 10 of those being staff. The other staff is going to try and fix the squadron on the cadet side and if that doesn't work they are going to bring it up with the seniors with a possibility of them all getting suspended. I really love cap and don't want my friends to get suspended but we have no clue what else to do. (I a kind of caught up in the middle of this as being one of the most recent additions to the staff). If this happens this will leave me (a Senior NCO) two more Senior NCOs and one brand new NCO left with this problem. What would you recommend we do?
C/2dLt
CAC Representative
Alpha Flight Commander

CapStranger

Just realized i put this in the wrong section sorry.
C/2dLt
CAC Representative
Alpha Flight Commander

CAP9907

OK... moved to the appropriate section.

~9907
21 yrs of service

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Zvezda

I'd schedule a meeting with all of the "problem" seniors and cadet officers, maybe even 30 minutes before your weekly meeting. Bring up your concerns and have a discussion about it. It could be a total misunderstanding. I mean, they show up every week for 2.5 hours as a volunteer(!), so they don't hate you guys. You might just want to talk to them about loosening their grip on the cadet program.

If you still find that, that doesn't work, contact your wing director for cadets and express your concern. They'll take a look into it and give some advice. Being so situational it would be better to have advice from an outsider who can actually come and visit the squadron.

Eclipse

This sounds like a problem that requires higher-HQ eyes and possibly intervention.

That is >not< the Wing Director of Cadet Programs.

That is the Wing CC, Vice CC, or Inspector General.  If you have Groups, start there first.

There are very specific rules regarding why and how cadets can be suspended, and it's doubtful they
are being followed.

These conversations almost certainly need to involve parents.

FWIW, cadets rarely can fix leadership issues on their own, and frankly should not try, that
will probably just make things worse.

Make sure when you have these conversations that you avoid histrionics and emotions - state
facts as you know them, and make sure options are informed.  Do not bring up situations
in which you have peripheral or second-hand information, or which are not your concern.

If things don't improve, look for another squadron.




CAP9907

Quote from: Eclipse on June 14, 2019, 03:59:18 am
This sounds like a problem that requires higher-HQ eyes and possibly intervention.

That is >not< the Wing Director of Cadet Programs.

That is the Wing CC, Vice CC, or Inspector General. 


Squadron Commanders have very wide latitude to conduct their business (good and bad). Curious as to what could be an IG sustained complaint here.

~9907
21 yrs of service

Our Members Code of Conduct can be found here:   http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=13.0

jeders

Quote from: CAP9907 on June 14, 2019, 04:11:02 am
Squadron Commanders have very wide latitude to conduct their business (good and bad). Curious as to what could be an IG sustained complaint here.

~9907


If the cadet was suspended in a manner that violates CAP regulations for one. Other than that, these are all command climate issues and you need a HHQ commander with enough presence and resolve to fix them.
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

Eclipse

Quote from: jeders on June 14, 2019, 02:10:57 pm
Quote from: CAP9907 on June 14, 2019, 04:11:02 am
Squadron Commanders have very wide latitude to conduct their business (good and bad). Curious as to what could be an IG sustained complaint here.

~9907


If the cadet was suspended in a manner that violates CAP regulations for one. Other than that, these are all command climate issues and you need a HHQ commander with enough presence and resolve to fix them.


Exactly.



CAP9907

Quote from: jeders on June 14, 2019, 02:10:57 pm
Quote from: CAP9907 on June 14, 2019, 04:11:02 am
Squadron Commanders have very wide latitude to conduct their business (good and bad). Curious as to what could be an IG sustained complaint here.

~9907


If the cadet was suspended in a manner that violates CAP regulations for one. Other than that, these are all command climate issues and you need a HHQ commander with enough presence and resolve to fix them.


Absolutely agree HHQ should be involved, was just wondering about the IG aspect as my IG Senior course was many many years ago..
21 yrs of service

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s.cap

Where to start.

I understand that the description of this scenario is very once sided and I won't render any judgements. 
I'd like to offer some encouragement.

Cadet discipline issues, in my brief experience, require adult staff to take a progressive counseling approach
unless there's a cadet protection issue or a violation of the law.  There may be more to that but I'm still sort
of green so I'm curious what I may misunderstand.

Your volunteer staff are your assets.  If one is off the rails and isn't effective, it's up to you as a leader to
counsel and recover that asset for the Civil Air Patrol, and our nation, not write them off or bully them out of
the program.

As an adult leader in a cadet unit I try to arrange the program such that I enable to cadets to run the
architecture of processes the adults set up.  Phase 4 cadets get to participate in the architecture and planning
discussion.  If there are enough p4's one day, I suspect that we can turn that over to them as well and just
monitor it as it runs.

As a result, my bias of how to run a program causes me to think this cadet's situation seems a bit more off
than just a commanders latitude in running a unit.  Maybe I'm wrong.

I see that a few of you guys with tons of experience stating that various parts of the chain of command, or IG,
or... should be contacted etc, but how does a young inexperienced cadet NCO do that?  Is this poor kid asking,
"What's an IG?"  Please one of you PM him or her if you haven't already.

CAP9907

Quote from: s.cap on June 15, 2019, 03:27:01 am
Where to start.

  Please one of you PM him or her if you haven't already.


well, just spitballing here...

you could put all of your well-intentioned thoughts to work and do that yourself if you're so concerned. I for one, am not that concerned. There is a chain of command and it works more often than not..  YMMV.

~9907
21 yrs of service

Our Members Code of Conduct can be found here:   http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=13.0