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francisderosa16
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Posts: 115

« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2019, 02:55:37 AM »

Sonce we are already talking about black Boots, what do you think will happen if CAP moves into the OCPs in the future because army/USAF special operation units are permitted to wear black boots, so I wonder if that means we may wear the green boots?


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Also I've just learned from my father, ( who is a USAF LT. Col.), black boots may be authorized for any Army or USAF personnel with Unit or Division commanders authorization. So if we do move into OCPs we may not wear black boots. That is just my thoughts....


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SarDragon
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« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2019, 07:39:11 AM »

I doubt you will ever see OCPs as a cadet. We just got into what we have now.

As for boots, it's a wait and see. Don't hold your breath.
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Dave Bowles
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xyzzy
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Posts: 45

« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2019, 03:31:18 PM »

I don't think anybody manufactures sage green boots because they look nice or folks are fond of the color, do they? I'm pretty sure the reason they're made is cuz that's the color the USAF picked. Now that the USAF has moved on to another color, I'd bet all the manufacturers have stopped making that color. By the time CAP gets OCP (if that ever happens) no new sage green boots will be available. I don't know about other folks, but while I'd buy a used Gortex parka or even used jacket & trousers, I wouldn't buy used boots.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2019, 09:37:48 PM by xyzzy » Report to moderator   Logged
abdsp51
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« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2019, 05:55:43 PM »

The AF should have just gone to black suede or stuck with the coyote color. 
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PHall
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« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2019, 06:11:23 PM »

I doubt you will ever see OCPs as a cadet. We just got into what we have now.

As for boots, it's a wait and see. Don't hold your breath.

But the ABU is unique to the US Air Force, no one else wears it.
So with the Air Force transitioning to the OCP the two "official" contractors who made the ABU for the Air Force are now in the process of converting over to making OCPs. Which leaves whatever third world contractor Vanguard came up with as the sole supplier of ABUs.
At least there isn't a legal restriction on CAP wearing OCPs like there was with the ABU.
And that's why it took so long for CAP to get approval. We needed a Secretary of the Air Force waiver to the law.

My prediction - we will granted permission to wear the OCPs within the next two years.
That should be far enough out for the supply chain to be fully caught up.

YMMV
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francisderosa16
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« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2019, 06:14:05 PM »

I doubt you will ever see OCPs as a cadet. We just got into what we have now.

As for boots, it's a wait and see. Don't hold your breath.

But the ABU is unique to the US Air Force, no one else wears it.
So with the Air Force transitioning to the OCP the two "official" contractors who made the ABU for the Air Force are now in the process of converting over to making OCPs. Which leaves whatever third world contractor Vanguard came up with as the sole supplier of ABUs.
At least there isn't a legal restriction on CAP wearing OCPs like there was with the ABU.
And that's why it took so long for CAP to get approval. We needed a Secretary of the Air Force waiver to the law.

My prediction - we will granted permission to wear the OCPs within the next two years.
That should be far enough out for the supply chain to be fully caught up.

YMMV
Agreed. I think we should wear OCPs when the USAF wears OCPs, and ABUs when the USAF wears ABUs.


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mcalweegs
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« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2019, 05:32:56 AM »

Best MIL-type black boots I ever wore for comfort, training, and especially any running were the Bates "SEAL" Vibram Boots (non-steel toe).  I took out the standard Vibram inserts and put in commercially available athletic inserts which were even better for support and shock absorption.  Those and some Thorlo socks and you have the highest performance boot possible - imho.  I competed regularly with this combo in Mudruns and adventure races and they were outstanding. 
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GroundHawg
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« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2019, 02:12:01 PM »

The AF should have just gone to black suede or stuck with the coyote color.

Black Suede is an option with the BBDUs
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Spaceman3750
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« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2019, 05:05:42 PM »

The AF should have just gone to black suede or stuck with the coyote color.

Black Suede is an option with the BBDUs

I have the Lowa black suede ones. Break in was a little annoying and they’re not available in wide sizes so I had to do some fancy lacing to give a little more room in one spot but I’ve liked them. The stock insoles suck though. I put in a pair of custom 3D printed ones from a running store in town and those are much better.
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PHall
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« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2019, 05:38:57 PM »

The suede boots, no matter the color be they black, tan, green or coyote brown, are a PITA to keep clean and looking good.
You're just trading one type of boot care for another.
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Jim Lahaie
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« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2019, 06:48:58 PM »

Is black suede authorized for the BDU?
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Jim Lahaie
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PHall
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« Reply #31 on: April 24, 2019, 07:42:04 PM »

What does CAPM 39-1 say? There's a whole paragraph covering boot specifications.
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jeders
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« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2019, 07:47:40 PM »

The AF should have just gone to black suede or stuck with the coyote color.

Black Suede is an option with the BBDUs

Cite please?
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Eclipse
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« Reply #33 on: April 24, 2019, 08:49:33 PM »

Is black suede authorized for the BDU?

Yes, or more to the point it's not prohibited with the regulation is typically ambiguous.

The reference to "black combat boots" appears a number of times in 39-1 as a non-functional
hyper link, with the only verbiage being the below.

CAPM 39-1, Page 92:
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/M391_E6F33EAAEC28A.pdf
"6.4.3. Footwear (males/females) Combat boots. Will be worn with the BDU, or the flight duty
uniform. Black, with or without safety toe, plain rounded toe or rounded capped toe with or without
perforated seam. Zipper or elastic inserts optional, mesh inserts (for “jungle boot” style) are optional;
smooth or scotch-grained leather or man-made material, and may have a high gloss or patent finish. The
black combat boot can be worn (optional) with the service dress and service uniforms when not wearing a
skirt, maternity service dress and/or maternity jumper. Laces will either be tied and tucked in the boot or
tied and wrapped around the boot. No bowtie bootlaces will be visible. Any logos will be the same color
as the boot. "


The underlined would arguably preclude them, but not necessarily, and otherwise a suede boot would fall
easily within the rest of the parameters.

When the Navy was wearing them and they were in easy proximity, I saw them with the BBDU CFU.
They look sharp when new because they are "ultra black", but for the same reason they look odd.
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jeders
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« Reply #34 on: April 24, 2019, 10:03:36 PM »

Is black suede authorized for the BDU?

Yes, or more to the point it's not prohibited with the regulation is typically ambiguous.

The reference to "black combat boots" appears a number of times in 39-1 as a non-functional
hyper link, with the only verbiage being the below.

CAPM 39-1, Page 92:
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/M391_E6F33EAAEC28A.pdf
"6.4.3. Footwear (males/females) Combat boots. Will be worn with the BDU, or the flight duty
uniform. Black, with or without safety toe, plain rounded toe or rounded capped toe with or without
perforated seam. Zipper or elastic inserts optional, mesh inserts (for “jungle boot” style) are optional;
smooth or scotch-grained leather or man-made material, and may have a high gloss or patent finish. The
black combat boot can be worn (optional) with the service dress and service uniforms when not wearing a
skirt, maternity service dress and/or maternity jumper. Laces will either be tied and tucked in the boot or
tied and wrapped around the boot. No bowtie bootlaces will be visible. Any logos will be the same color
as the boot. "


The underlined would arguably preclude them, but not necessarily, and otherwise a suede boot would fall
easily within the rest of the parameters.

When the Navy was wearing them and they were in easy proximity, I saw them with the BBDU CFU.
They look sharp when new because they are "ultra black", but for the same reason they look odd.

Suede does not meet the definition of smooth leather, scotch-grained leather, or man-made material and is therefore not allowed with any uniform.
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Spaceman3750
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Posts: 2,697

« Reply #35 on: April 24, 2019, 10:16:12 PM »

Is black suede authorized for the BDU?

Yes, or more to the point it's not prohibited with the regulation is typically ambiguous.

The reference to "black combat boots" appears a number of times in 39-1 as a non-functional
hyper link, with the only verbiage being the below.

CAPM 39-1, Page 92:
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/M391_E6F33EAAEC28A.pdf
"6.4.3. Footwear (males/females) Combat boots. Will be worn with the BDU, or the flight duty
uniform. Black, with or without safety toe, plain rounded toe or rounded capped toe with or without
perforated seam. Zipper or elastic inserts optional, mesh inserts (for “jungle boot” style) are optional;
smooth or scotch-grained leather or man-made material, and may have a high gloss or patent finish. The
black combat boot can be worn (optional) with the service dress and service uniforms when not wearing a
skirt, maternity service dress and/or maternity jumper. Laces will either be tied and tucked in the boot or
tied and wrapped around the boot. No bowtie bootlaces will be visible. Any logos will be the same color
as the boot. "


The underlined would arguably preclude them, but not necessarily, and otherwise a suede boot would fall
easily within the rest of the parameters.

When the Navy was wearing them and they were in easy proximity, I saw them with the BBDU CFU.
They look sharp when new because they are "ultra black", but for the same reason they look odd.

Suede does not meet the definition of smooth leather, scotch-grained leather, or man-made material and is therefore not allowed with any uniform.

The BBDU footwear section is drastically looser than BDU.

EDIT: 5.2.1.7. Footwear. Socks black shoes or booand black combat boots are mandatory with this uniform.

(Phrasing weirdness is from the reg not me)

I read as black shoes, boots, and combat boots are allowed *shrug*.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2019, 10:21:13 PM by Spaceman3750 » Report to moderator   Logged
SarDragon
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Posts: 10,730
Unit: Smoots

« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2019, 07:17:30 AM »

Definition of Scotch grain: a heavy leather marked by a coarse pebbled grain, made usually of chrome-tanned cowhide, and used especially for men's shoes. Suede does not appear to meet this definition.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
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starnes
Newbie

Posts: 1
Unit: SER-FL-355

« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2019, 03:52:19 PM »

You can't go wrong with a good pair of Bates Ultra-Lites. They're comfortable, shine well, last long, and cheap. I got mine for 75 bucks off of Amazon and I love them. Magnum boots are also a good choice, specifically the Response II's, which last a long and are also pretty comfortable, however they can get a bit pricy depending on where you happen to purchase them from. Hope this helps.
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xSpecialist
Recruit

Posts: 19

« Reply #38 on: May 28, 2019, 06:35:10 PM »

Any current recommendations on black boots. As an active duty army guy I thought it would be easy to find a new set but they don't really sell them around the bases I spend time at anymore. I like boots that I break in and wear for a decade or two. I'm not looking to devolve into a thread about how black boots are silly for ABUs, or how we should look ahead to OCPs. I'm just looking for a decent pair of boots that will last and look good in uniform.


There are a ton of great options at Amazon.
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C/SMSgt Alexander Harrison
Maj Kevin A Adams Memorial Composite Squadron
Alpha Flight Sergeant
U.S. Air Force Auxiliary
DocJekyll
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Posts: 185

« Reply #39 on: May 29, 2019, 12:27:15 PM »

I've slowly been moving over to higher quality boots as I've gotten older and my feet have thanked me.

Currently, I'm wearing almost exclusively Solomon, and in particular for USAF style uniforms: Solomon Urban Jungle Forces boot. For hot tropical days you can't beat it. I have some Blackhawk Warriors for waterproof but I'll be switching those out in the next few months.

Sage boots are DOA. No sense to going to them lest we end up in the same problem we face with the ABU... twice over.
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