April 07, 2020, 02:33:07 am

Black boots?

Started by jb3, April 14, 2019, 10:23:46 pm

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jb3

Any current recommendations on black boots. As an active duty army guy I thought it would be easy to find a new set but they don't really sell them around the bases I spend time at anymore. I like boots that I break in and wear for a decade or two. I'm not looking to devolve into a thread about how black boots are silly for ABUs, or how we should look ahead to OCPs. I'm just looking for a decent pair of boots that will last and look good in uniform.

abdsp51

Original SWAT if you can find them.  I got them for 40 bucks a pair and still have the first set of black I bought. 

5.11s arent bad either if you can find them.  All depends how much are you planning on spending. 

jb3

Thanks for the recommendation. I'm working my google skills already.

Fester

1stLt, CAP
Squadron CC
Group CPO
Eaker - 1996

Stonewall

I can't stand the non-military boots. Since I transitioned to ABUs I've spent about $300 trying to find the "right" boots. I got a pair of used standard issue combat boots (same as I was issued in basic training in 1991) but something was different about them so I stopped wearing them. I or a very used pair of issued  black jungle boots and they too were uncomfortable and just didn't fit right. Then I got a pair of 5.11 side zip "Tactical" boots and they just suck. Finally, I dropped $120 on Oakley (hot weather) Assault Boots and they seem to be okay.

I want brand new jungle boots or combat boots tha I can break in myself like I always have, and I just can't find any new military issued boots in size 12 that aren't knockoffs.

Eclipse

Quoth the Wiki...

(Marine Combat Boots) "Marine Corps personnel were authorized to wear various Marine Corps Combat Boot models from Danner, Belleville, McRae and Bates, and Rugged all-terrain boots from Danner.

(Army Combat Boots) "Current manufacturers are Altama, Bates, Belleville Boot, McRae, Rocky, Warson Brands/Converse and Wellco."

Air Force appears to be McRae, Belleville, and Reebok, along with the generic "DLATS".

I'm finding those all over the web.



PHall

Quote from: Eclipse on April 14, 2019, 11:56:55 pm
Quoth the Wiki...

(Marine Combat Boots) "Marine Corps personnel were authorized to wear various Marine Corps Combat Boot models from Danner, Belleville, McRae and Bates, and Rugged all-terrain boots from Danner.

(Army Combat Boots) "Current manufacturers are Altama, Bates, Belleville Boot, McRae, Rocky, Warson Brands/Converse and Wellco."

Air Force appears to be McRae, Belleville, and Reebok, along with the generic "DLATS".

I'm finding those all over the web.


But how many are in black Bob?  Because the Air Force, Army and Marines don't wear black boots.

Eclipse

^ Lots in all styles.

First I found was the Altama's in Army issue both standard and jungle.

Plenty from there.



jb3

April 15, 2019, 01:23:37 am #8 Last Edit: April 15, 2019, 01:26:50 am by jb3
Part of my issue is that I had a near-new pair of black jungle boots from my army BDU days. Then my amazing son decided to join CAP and he wears my size (for now!). I had to give him the good boots. But I like the recommendations I'm getting so thanks to all. I am a big fan of Altama jungle boots so I may go with those. I'm an old school purist so they are a good fit.

JB

Stonewall

I am a huge Wellco fan, and I went to their site and hey do not have jungle boots. They may show them, but they do not have them.

Altama's suck, but I bought a pair anyway and they're one of the ones I bought that suck. Army issued boys (not Altamas) are what I want. Many are allowed, but none of those available now are standard issue.


jb3

Perfect. Exactly what I was looking for. Old school but affordable. Thanks for the tip.

GroundHawg

Quote from: jb3 on April 14, 2019, 10:23:46 pm
I like boots that I break in and wear for a decade or two.  I'm just looking for a decent pair of boots that will last and look good in uniform.


Danners or Corcorans

Jim Lahaie

I use army basic training boots; work like a charm and shine really nice when done right. I also use hairspray on my boots in dry conditions, but not in a wet climate (it wears down the boot when washed off).

Just make sure they are IAW 39-1 (pretty much conservative black, 8 inches tall with no designs on them), and any other boot fitting that will work fine.
Jim Lahaie
Cadet Senior Master Sergeant, CAP
Recruiting & Retention NCO
Cadet First Sergeant
"Because this is CAP Talk and that's what people like to do here."

Jester

Don't. Use. Hairspray. On. Boots.

Regardless of climate.

Hairspray is for hair.

Leather is not hair.

Use leather polish.

It works fine. I promise.

THRAWN

Not so fast..."These are Imports but they are of good Quality!"

Made in the Dominican Republic. You might want to look at other boots.

Quote from: jb3 on April 15, 2019, 02:31:00 am
Perfect. Exactly what I was looking for. Old school but affordable. Thanks for the tip.
Strup
"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016

THRAWN

Strup
"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016

Eclipse

Quote from: THRAWN on April 16, 2019, 02:39:08 pm
Not so fast..."These are Imports but they are of good Quality!"

Made in the Dominican Republic. You might want to look at other boots.


Seriously, what's not an import these days?

Thrawn's link has them - they were OOS when we started this dance, now in stock.

Point is, they are all over the place.



THRAWN

Quote from: Eclipse on April 16, 2019, 02:50:39 pm
Quote from: THRAWN on April 16, 2019, 02:39:08 pm
Not so fast..."These are Imports but they are of good Quality!"

Made in the Dominican Republic. You might want to look at other boots.


Seriously, what's not an import these days?



The boots that I linked to, for one...  :)
Strup
"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016

francisderosa16

Sonce we are already talking about black Boots, what do you think will happen if CAP moves into the OCPs in the future because army/USAF special operation units are permitted to wear black boots, so I wonder if that means we may wear the green boots?


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francisderosa16

Quote from: francisderosa16 on April 20, 2019, 01:13:14 am
Sonce we are already talking about black Boots, what do you think will happen if CAP moves into the OCPs in the future because army/USAF special operation units are permitted to wear black boots, so I wonder if that means we may wear the green boots?


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Also I've just learned from my father, ( who is a USAF LT. Col.), black boots may be authorized for any Army or USAF personnel with Unit or Division commanders authorization. So if we do move into OCPs we may not wear black boots. That is just my thoughts....


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SarDragon

I doubt you will ever see OCPs as a cadet. We just got into what we have now.

As for boots, it's a wait and see. Don't hold your breath.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

xyzzy

April 20, 2019, 03:31:18 pm #22 Last Edit: April 20, 2019, 09:37:48 pm by xyzzy
I don't think anybody manufactures sage green boots because they look nice or folks are fond of the color, do they? I'm pretty sure the reason they're made is cuz that's the color the USAF picked. Now that the USAF has moved on to another color, I'd bet all the manufacturers have stopped making that color. By the time CAP gets OCP (if that ever happens) no new sage green boots will be available. I don't know about other folks, but while I'd buy a used Gortex parka or even used jacket & trousers, I wouldn't buy used boots.

abdsp51

The AF should have just gone to black suede or stuck with the coyote color. 

PHall

Quote from: SarDragon on April 20, 2019, 07:39:11 am
I doubt you will ever see OCPs as a cadet. We just got into what we have now.

As for boots, it's a wait and see. Don't hold your breath.


But the ABU is unique to the US Air Force, no one else wears it.
So with the Air Force transitioning to the OCP the two "official" contractors who made the ABU for the Air Force are now in the process of converting over to making OCPs. Which leaves whatever third world contractor Vanguard came up with as the sole supplier of ABUs.
At least there isn't a legal restriction on CAP wearing OCPs like there was with the ABU.
And that's why it took so long for CAP to get approval. We needed a Secretary of the Air Force waiver to the law.

My prediction - we will granted permission to wear the OCPs within the next two years.
That should be far enough out for the supply chain to be fully caught up.

YMMV

francisderosa16

Quote from: PHall on April 20, 2019, 06:11:23 pm
Quote from: SarDragon on April 20, 2019, 07:39:11 am
I doubt you will ever see OCPs as a cadet. We just got into what we have now.

As for boots, it's a wait and see. Don't hold your breath.


But the ABU is unique to the US Air Force, no one else wears it.
So with the Air Force transitioning to the OCP the two "official" contractors who made the ABU for the Air Force are now in the process of converting over to making OCPs. Which leaves whatever third world contractor Vanguard came up with as the sole supplier of ABUs.
At least there isn't a legal restriction on CAP wearing OCPs like there was with the ABU.
And that's why it took so long for CAP to get approval. We needed a Secretary of the Air Force waiver to the law.

My prediction - we will granted permission to wear the OCPs within the next two years.
That should be far enough out for the supply chain to be fully caught up.

YMMV

Agreed. I think we should wear OCPs when the USAF wears OCPs, and ABUs when the USAF wears ABUs.


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mcalweegs

Best MIL-type black boots I ever wore for comfort, training, and especially any running were the Bates "SEAL" Vibram Boots (non-steel toe).  I took out the standard Vibram inserts and put in commercially available athletic inserts which were even better for support and shock absorption.  Those and some Thorlo socks and you have the highest performance boot possible - imho.  I competed regularly with this combo in Mudruns and adventure races and they were outstanding. 

GroundHawg

Quote from: abdsp51 on April 20, 2019, 05:55:43 pm
The AF should have just gone to black suede or stuck with the coyote color.


Black Suede is an option with the BBDUs

Spaceman3750

Quote from: GroundHawg on April 24, 2019, 02:12:01 pm
Quote from: abdsp51 on April 20, 2019, 05:55:43 pm
The AF should have just gone to black suede or stuck with the coyote color.


Black Suede is an option with the BBDUs


I have the Lowa black suede ones. Break in was a little annoying and they're not available in wide sizes so I had to do some fancy lacing to give a little more room in one spot but I've liked them. The stock insoles suck though. I put in a pair of custom 3D printed ones from a running store in town and those are much better.

PHall

The suede boots, no matter the color be they black, tan, green or coyote brown, are a PITA to keep clean and looking good.
You're just trading one type of boot care for another.

Jim Lahaie

Is black suede authorized for the BDU?
Jim Lahaie
Cadet Senior Master Sergeant, CAP
Recruiting & Retention NCO
Cadet First Sergeant
"Because this is CAP Talk and that's what people like to do here."

PHall

What does CAPM 39-1 say? There's a whole paragraph covering boot specifications.

jeders

Quote from: GroundHawg on April 24, 2019, 02:12:01 pm
Quote from: abdsp51 on April 20, 2019, 05:55:43 pm
The AF should have just gone to black suede or stuck with the coyote color.


Black Suede is an option with the BBDUs


Cite please?
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

Eclipse

Quote from: Jim Lahaie on April 24, 2019, 06:48:58 pm
Is black suede authorized for the BDU?


Yes, or more to the point it's not prohibited with the regulation is typically ambiguous.

The reference to "black combat boots" appears a number of times in 39-1 as a non-functional
hyper link, with the only verbiage being the below.

CAPM 39-1, Page 92:
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/M391_E6F33EAAEC28A.pdf
"6.4.3. Footwear (males/females) Combat boots. Will be worn with the BDU, or the flight duty
uniform. Black, with or without safety toe, plain rounded toe or rounded capped toe with or without
perforated seam. Zipper or elastic inserts optional, mesh inserts (for "jungle boot" style) are optional;
smooth or scotch-grained leather or man-made material, and may have a high gloss or patent finish. The
black combat boot can be worn (optional) with the service dress and service uniforms when not wearing a
skirt, maternity service dress and/or maternity jumper. Laces will either be tied and tucked in the boot or
tied and wrapped around the boot. No bowtie bootlaces will be visible. Any logos will be the same color
as the boot. "


The underlined would arguably preclude them, but not necessarily, and otherwise a suede boot would fall
easily within the rest of the parameters.

When the Navy was wearing them and they were in easy proximity, I saw them with the BBDU CFU.
They look sharp when new because they are "ultra black", but for the same reason they look odd.



jeders

Quote from: Eclipse on April 24, 2019, 08:49:33 pm
Quote from: Jim Lahaie on April 24, 2019, 06:48:58 pm
Is black suede authorized for the BDU?


Yes, or more to the point it's not prohibited with the regulation is typically ambiguous.

The reference to "black combat boots" appears a number of times in 39-1 as a non-functional
hyper link, with the only verbiage being the below.

CAPM 39-1, Page 92:
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/M391_E6F33EAAEC28A.pdf
"6.4.3. Footwear (males/females) Combat boots. Will be worn with the BDU, or the flight duty
uniform. Black, with or without safety toe, plain rounded toe or rounded capped toe with or without
perforated seam. Zipper or elastic inserts optional, mesh inserts (for "jungle boot" style) are optional;
smooth or scotch-grained leather or man-made material, and may have a high gloss or patent finish. The
black combat boot can be worn (optional) with the service dress and service uniforms when not wearing a
skirt, maternity service dress and/or maternity jumper. Laces will either be tied and tucked in the boot or
tied and wrapped around the boot. No bowtie bootlaces will be visible. Any logos will be the same color
as the boot. "


The underlined would arguably preclude them, but not necessarily, and otherwise a suede boot would fall
easily within the rest of the parameters.

When the Navy was wearing them and they were in easy proximity, I saw them with the BBDU CFU.
They look sharp when new because they are "ultra black", but for the same reason they look odd.


Suede does not meet the definition of smooth leather, scotch-grained leather, or man-made material and is therefore not allowed with any uniform.
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

Spaceman3750

April 24, 2019, 10:16:12 pm #35 Last Edit: April 24, 2019, 10:21:13 pm by Spaceman3750
Quote from: jeders on April 24, 2019, 10:03:36 pm
Quote from: Eclipse on April 24, 2019, 08:49:33 pm
Quote from: Jim Lahaie on April 24, 2019, 06:48:58 pm
Is black suede authorized for the BDU?


Yes, or more to the point it's not prohibited with the regulation is typically ambiguous.

The reference to "black combat boots" appears a number of times in 39-1 as a non-functional
hyper link, with the only verbiage being the below.

CAPM 39-1, Page 92:
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/M391_E6F33EAAEC28A.pdf
"6.4.3. Footwear (males/females) Combat boots. Will be worn with the BDU, or the flight duty
uniform. Black, with or without safety toe, plain rounded toe or rounded capped toe with or without
perforated seam. Zipper or elastic inserts optional, mesh inserts (for "jungle boot" style) are optional;
smooth or scotch-grained leather or man-made material, and may have a high gloss or patent finish. The
black combat boot can be worn (optional) with the service dress and service uniforms when not wearing a
skirt, maternity service dress and/or maternity jumper. Laces will either be tied and tucked in the boot or
tied and wrapped around the boot. No bowtie bootlaces will be visible. Any logos will be the same color
as the boot. "


The underlined would arguably preclude them, but not necessarily, and otherwise a suede boot would fall
easily within the rest of the parameters.

When the Navy was wearing them and they were in easy proximity, I saw them with the BBDU CFU.
They look sharp when new because they are "ultra black", but for the same reason they look odd.


Suede does not meet the definition of smooth leather, scotch-grained leather, or man-made material and is therefore not allowed with any uniform.


The BBDU footwear section is drastically looser than BDU.

EDIT: 5.2.1.7. Footwear. Socks black shoes or booand black combat boots are mandatory with this uniform.

(Phrasing weirdness is from the reg not me)

I read as black shoes, boots, and combat boots are allowed *shrug*.

SarDragon

Definition of Scotch grain: a heavy leather marked by a coarse pebbled grain, made usually of chrome-tanned cowhide, and used especially for men's shoes. Suede does not appear to meet this definition.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

starnes

You can't go wrong with a good pair of Bates Ultra-Lites. They're comfortable, shine well, last long, and cheap. I got mine for 75 bucks off of Amazon and I love them. Magnum boots are also a good choice, specifically the Response II's, which last a long and are also pretty comfortable, however they can get a bit pricy depending on where you happen to purchase them from. Hope this helps.

xSpecialist

Quote from: jb3 on April 14, 2019, 10:23:46 pm
Any current recommendations on black boots. As an active duty army guy I thought it would be easy to find a new set but they don't really sell them around the bases I spend time at anymore. I like boots that I break in and wear for a decade or two. I'm not looking to devolve into a thread about how black boots are silly for ABUs, or how we should look ahead to OCPs. I'm just looking for a decent pair of boots that will last and look good in uniform.



There are a ton of great options at Amazon.
C/SMSgt Alexander Harrison
Maj Kevin A Adams Memorial Composite Squadron
Alpha Flight Sergeant
U.S. Air Force Auxiliary

DocJekyll

I've slowly been moving over to higher quality boots as I've gotten older and my feet have thanked me.

Currently, I'm wearing almost exclusively Solomon, and in particular for USAF style uniforms: Solomon Urban Jungle Forces boot. For hot tropical days you can't beat it. I have some Blackhawk Warriors for waterproof but I'll be switching those out in the next few months.

Sage boots are DOA. No sense to going to them lest we end up in the same problem we face with the ABU... twice over.
Always give 100%, unless you're giving blood.


xSpecialist

I feel that as the USAF Auxiliary we should wear the sage green boots like the Air Force.

Read this:
http://auxbeacon.org/opposition-growing-to-caps-halloween-costume/
C/SMSgt Alexander Harrison
Maj Kevin A Adams Memorial Composite Squadron
Alpha Flight Sergeant
U.S. Air Force Auxiliary

Ned

While I appreciate the perspective of the junior enlisted airman credited as the author, this is rather old (2016) news.

And it was the AF Chief of Staff's office that approved the ABU combination depicted, including the black boots.

I understand you disagree with the AF Chief of Staff (or at least the staff) on this issue, but I'm not sure they got it wrong.

Just look at all of the posts above pointing out supply shortages and availability of black boots.  While I am not a logistician, I suspect that that problem would be even worse for sage-boots in the out years.

SarDragon

Quote from: xSpecialist on May 29, 2019, 08:06:38 pm
I feel that as the USAF Auxiliary we should wear the sage green boots like the Air Force.

Read this:
http://auxbeacon.org/opposition-growing-to-caps-halloween-costume/


Your source is unreliable, and biased against CAP. It is best left unread, and your time is better spent elsewhere, even shining shoes.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

PHall

Quote from: xSpecialist on May 29, 2019, 08:06:38 pm
I feel that as the USAF Auxiliary we should wear the sage green boots like the Air Force.

Read this:
http://auxbeacon.org/opposition-growing-to-caps-halloween-costume/



Cadet, if you believe what is written in the Aux Beacon you'll believe anything.