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Author Topic: Cap sUAS Program - The word from Headquarters  (Read 2749 times)
etodd
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« on: April 12, 2019, 04:40:27 PM »

For all those waiting to hear about it from National.  Read all about it. Page 35 of the current CAP Volunteer Magazine.

https://presspage-production-content.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/1913/volunteerspring2019finallores-103112.pdf?10000

If you want to be involved, contact your Wing's DOU and start training. :)
« Last Edit: April 12, 2019, 05:50:01 PM by etodd » Report to moderator   Logged
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etodd
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« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2019, 04:42:19 PM »

No, its not in eServices. No, its not in WMIRS. And may be a year or more. We are doing everything on paper now. No time to waste waiting for the IT folks to get it online.  Its real, its already happening.
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« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2019, 05:05:21 PM »

No, its not in eServices. No, its not in WMIRS. And may be a year or more. We are doing everything on paper now. No time to waste waiting for the IT folks to get it online.  Its real, its already happening.

Something a year+ from implementation is a pilot, nothing more or less. 

The wing DOs don't need every rank and file member calling them asking where to pick up their drone.
When the wing(s) have an actual mission or need, they will let members know, otherwise, read the articles
with the same salt grains as any other "special / limited-access" CAP activity and get back to normal unit OPS.
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etodd
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« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2019, 05:24:22 PM »

No, its not in eServices. No, its not in WMIRS. And may be a year or more. We are doing everything on paper now. No time to waste waiting for the IT folks to get it online.  Its real, its already happening.

Something a year+ from implementation is a pilot, nothing more or less. 

The wing DOs don't need every rank and file member calling them asking where to pick up their drone.
When the wing(s) have an actual mission or need, they will let members know, otherwise, read the articles
with the same salt grains as any other "special / limited-access" CAP activity and get back to normal unit OPS.



For those interested, there ARE already specific Missions getting underway. 

No Wing is considered having sUAS "Operational Capability" until they have a minimum of 10 sUAS Mission Pilots,  or 5 Mission Pilots and 5 sUAS Technicians. So yes, each Wing is starting training now to get to Operational Capability with hopefully many more than the minimum to ensure we can respond. So yes, there is a bit of rush and time crunch. Hence our not waiting for WMIRS, etc.

The 'early birds' that got excited about this months ago and started signing up, yes, have running head start. But its not too late to jump in. Cadets age 16 and up can be Mission Pilots or Technicians. This is really going to be exciting for them.

I'll review all the previous posts I made in this forum and see if anything needs to be revised and updated, but at first glance it all still appears correct.

All the documentation (F5, F91, SQTR, CAPR 70-1U, etc., etc.) posted previously  is still all valid, and in use.

Taking my F91 next week with the goal of being an CAP sUAS Instructor and Check Pilot at that point, so I can start training others in my Wing.

(ETA: Interesting stat. CAP now has twice as many drones as airplanes.)
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Dwight Dutton
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« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2019, 05:33:50 PM »

(ETA: Interesting stat. CAP now has twice as many drones as airplanes.)

That didn't take long.  And it will probably be 100 to 1 when the program is fully operational.
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etodd
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« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2019, 05:41:25 PM »


.... as any other "special / limited-access" CAP activity...


One of my goals in all my posts here are to make sure just the opposite happens. There is ample access and 'prior notice'.  Let no one in the future ever call this program one of those "good old boy clubs".  The early bird gets the worm. Those who sit on the sidelines waiting for an invitation ....
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PHall
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« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2019, 05:50:20 PM »

So etodd, do you have permission from the person in charge of the program to be posting all of this or are you once again jumping the gun?
If you're so bloody up on this program why aren't you one of the folks who are actually running it?
Have you ever heard the phrase "Stay in your lane"?
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etodd
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« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2019, 05:52:30 PM »


When the wing(s) have an actual mission or need, they will let members know,....


Thats like saying when CAP has a mission, we'll buy airplanes and start training. LOL

We are rolling this out quickly and need MANY members involved and trained ahead of time.
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etodd
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« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2019, 05:56:47 PM »

So etodd, do you have permission from the person in charge of the program to be posting all of this or are you once again jumping the gun?
If you're so bloody up on this program why aren't you one of the folks who are actually running it?
Have you ever heard the phrase "Stay in your lane"?

Yes, and yes, they want the word spread. We need participants. But I do get it. Some folks just will not believe it unless Maj Gen Mark E. Smith tells them in person, face to face.

I'm here to help those who are excited about the program and possibilities, and might want some guidance as to how to get started.. Anyone not interested, we can move to the Lobby and discuss other issues. I'm game. :)
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« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2019, 05:59:54 PM »

Some folks just will not believe it unless Maj Gen Mark E. Smith tells them in person, face to face
until there is a training schedule in place in their wing, SQTRs, doctrine, missions on the calendar, and a controller in their hand.

FTFY.

Until >all< of those things are true, it's just a feel-good article for the majority of members.

You've been in CAP well-long enough to understand how it actually works, and to also know that
the only thing worse then not doing a thing, it getting people excited to do a thing that never happens,
especially if getting ready to do that thing means members have to spend time or money "getting ready".

"This is an sUAS, while it's charging we will now discuss some safety rules, and then begin a demonstration..."
Is how you start these conversations.

Not.

"That other wing you'll never get to has this thing, and I heard Wing HQ might get one next year, so let's get moving!"

« Last Edit: April 12, 2019, 06:04:00 PM by Eclipse » Report to moderator   Logged


etodd
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« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2019, 06:04:30 PM »

Some folks just will not believe it unless Maj Gen Mark E. Smith tells them in person, face to face
until there is a training schedule in place in their wing, SQTRs, doctrine, missions on the calendar, and a controller in their hand.

FTFY.

Until >all< of those things are true, it's just a feel-good article for the majority of members.

I truly get what you are saying. And realize many will feel like you. I just hope they don't then decide later they wished to have been involved from the start. Not everyone care about sUAS. CAP has so many areas of interests. Something for everyone.  I'm just here for the ones that want to jump in now. 
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« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2019, 06:05:47 PM »

I just hope they don't then decide later they wished to have been involved from the start.

Because?
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etodd
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« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2019, 06:07:52 PM »


"That other wing you'll never get to has this thing, and I heard Wing HQ might get one next year, so let's get moving!"

Every Wing is already involved and has a sUAS package and should have assigned a DOU by now, who is the "trainer of the trainers". I'm not sure what Wing you are in, but would be easy for you to call your DO and find out who is running your sUAS program and get the details.
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« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2019, 06:18:15 PM »


"That other wing you'll never get to has this thing, and I heard Wing HQ might get one next year, so let's get moving!"

Every Wing is already involved and has a sUAS package and should have assigned a DOU by now, who is the "trainer of the trainers". I'm not sure what Wing you are in, but would be easy for you to call your DO and find out who is running your sUAS program and get the details.

Which is exactly what you should >not< do.  When they are ready to roll things out, it will come down the chain.
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etodd
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« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2019, 08:37:06 PM »

When they are ready to roll things out, it will come down the chain.

Enough eager beavers like me in every Wing, that the new DOUs are not having to send out Wing wide emails to try and draft people. They are already very busy training the members that are interested enough and are "self starters". Which is exactly what this program needs. People with initiative. Not those who sit back and wait to be asked.

Training is happening "now".  People are completing their F5u and F91u now.

My posts here are for those folks. Glad to help anyone who wants to find out more. PM me. :)

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CAP9907
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« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2019, 10:16:01 PM »


"That other wing you'll never get to has this thing, and I heard Wing HQ might get one next year, so let's get moving!"

Every Wing is already involved and has a sUAS package and should have assigned a DOU by now, who is the "trainer of the trainers". I'm not sure what Wing you are in, but would be easy for you to call your DO and find out who is running your sUAS program and get the details.

Nope, not here. Is there an official reference to a “DOU” somewhere? I can’t find it in 20-1 nor in any Duty Assignment. What do they do, what are the responsibilities, what are the minimum qualifications required for appointment? Who do they report to?
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etodd
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« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2019, 11:17:47 PM »


"That other wing you'll never get to has this thing, and I heard Wing HQ might get one next year, so let's get moving!"

Every Wing is already involved and has a sUAS package and should have assigned a DOU by now, who is the "trainer of the trainers". I'm not sure what Wing you are in, but would be easy for you to call your DO and find out who is running your sUAS program and get the details.

Nope, not here. Is there an official reference to a “DOU” somewhere? I can’t find it in 20-1 nor in any Duty Assignment. What do they do, what are the responsibilities, what are the minimum qualifications required for appointment? Who do they report to?

Which Wing? Have you asked your DO who is the new DOU for the sUAS Program? 

I need to quit allowing myself to be baited by the naysayers here and spend more time with the interested members that are contacting me separately.
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« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2019, 11:41:53 PM »

I need to quit allowing myself to be baited by the naysayers here and spend more time with the interested members that are contacting me separately.

There is a significant difference between a "nay sayer" and experienced members who
actually know how these types of program work and evolve.

Used an SDIS rig lately?  How about an A.R.C.H.E.R. ground station?  Wait, wait, what about GIIEP?

It took CAP 2+ years to figure out how to mount a consumer camera to an airplane, and
that issue still isn't really sorted out.

Meanwhile, after all the press releases, magazine articles, and training hours, CAP is
prosecuting it's same two major missions, DF and Aerial survey, in essentially the
exact same way as it did 20 years ago, with the MARK1-E, L-Pers, and stand-alone digital cameras.
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etodd
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« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2019, 11:57:43 PM »


Used an SDIS rig lately?  How about an A.R.C.H.E.R. ground station?  Wait, wait, what about GIIEP?



Yep, I understand the hesitancy and frustration from past endeavors.  Those were attempts by CAP to "buy it and they will come".

This one is totally different. This time, its our customers who are saying what to do, what to buy, and are involved to the point of deciding which Wings were trained first, over the last several months. One specific mission  that is already beginning  at multiple locations across the country, is what has already funded this program. 

You don't have to be a cheerleader ... I can handle the job. LOL


Quote
Is there an official reference to a “DOU” somewhere? I can’t find it in 20-1 nor in any Duty Assignment. What do they do, what are the responsibilities, what are the minimum qualifications required for appointment? Who do they report to?

Thats what really "burns" some folks, I'm seeing. Sooooo acclimated to everything being online and "official" ... that when something rolls out this quickly, they just cannot fathom how it works. How dare we do SQTRs, F5s, F91s, etc. on mere paper and not have it online yet. Oh, the horror of it all!
 A program done with word of mouth and email! Surely its not possible!  LOL
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Eclipse
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« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2019, 12:14:05 AM »

A program done with word of mouth and email! Surely its not possible!  LOL

If that's how you want to run your HOA or personal business, that's your call.

That's decidedly not how you run a Congressionally Chartered and funded national organization that
purports to provide services that protect life and property.

In fact, that is one of the chief complaints both on this forum and IRL, that
cap executes far too much of its operations via "word of mouth".

That is the literal definition of the GOBC.
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CAP9907
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« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2019, 12:17:23 AM »


Used an SDIS rig lately?  How about an A.R.C.H.E.R. ground station?  Wait, wait, what about GIIEP?



Yep, I understand the hesitancy and frustration from past endeavors.  Those were attempts by CAP to "buy it and they will come".

This one is totally different. This time, its our customers who are saying what to do, what to buy, and are involved to the point of deciding which Wings were trained first, over the last several months. One specific mission  that is already beginning  at multiple locations across the country, is what has already funded this program. 

You don't have to be a cheerleader ... I can handle the job. LOL


Quote
Is there an official reference to a “DOU” somewhere? I can’t find it in 20-1 nor in any Duty Assignment. What do they do, what are the responsibilities, what are the minimum qualifications required for appointment? Who do they report to?

Thats what really "burns" some folks, I'm seeing. Sooooo acclimated to everything being online and "official" ... that when something rolls out this quickly, they just cannot fathom how it works. How dare we do SQTRs, F5s, F91s, etc. on mere paper and not have it online yet. Oh, the horror of it all!
 A program done with word of mouth and email! Surely its not possible!  LOL

Lol, well yes, that is how we hold people accountable to a defined set of standards and expectations. Ask your local IG or other quality assurance expert how well it works out otherwise with ‘word of mouth’.

CAP works to Manuals, Regulations, and clearly defined criteria for Ops Quals. Certifying people to any other standard is not only amateur, but looking for trouble. We should be better than that.

~9907
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etodd
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« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2019, 12:21:01 AM »

A program done with word of mouth and email! Surely its not possible!  LOL

If that's how you want to run your HOA or personal business, that's your call.

It'll all be in place in due time. 

In the meantime, there's work to do for those of us interested and involved.

(And here I go getting baited again and replying. Geez ... I'll move along now.)

Wanna talk uniforms?  >:D
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etodd
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« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2019, 12:23:35 AM »


CAP works to Manuals, Regulations, and clearly defined criteria for Ops Quals. Certifying people to any other standard is not only amateur, but looking for trouble. We should be better than that.


CAPR 70-1u and others, already in place and being used daily ... for those interested enough to request a copy.

Just because you can't Google it, doesn't mean it isn't being used.

Eyes all dotted and tees crossed.  Its all good.

I'll move along now. Too much negativity in this forum tonight.
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CAP9907
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« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2019, 01:01:11 AM »


CAP works to Manuals, Regulations, and clearly defined criteria for Ops Quals. Certifying people to any other standard is not only amateur, but looking for trouble. We should be better than that.


CAPR 70-1u and others, already in place and being used daily ... for those interested enough to request a copy.

Just because you can't Google it, doesn't mean it isn't being used.

Eyes all dotted and tees crossed.  Its all good.

I'll move along now. Too much negativity in this forum tonight.

If a Member cannot access that Regulation, it does not exist... there is an entire process of review up to CAP-USAF to make this so. I am not using Google, I am using my Wing and Region permissions in eServices as well as capmembers.com. As Eclipse said, this whole thing is the definition of a good ol boys club. If you came to my Region/Wing with supposed paper qualifications and training, I’d tell you ‘thanks but no thanks’ until I could verify them and how they were obtained and to what standard I should hold you to.

Does your 101 card reflect these Ops Quals? I’ll bet it does not because they do not exist at this time.

Here is some advice from a 30 yr Member: slow down and stay in your lane. If/when National wants to roll this out IAW our Regulations, they will.  (Last part is from Col xxyyzz who offered that advice to pass on)  YMMV,

~9907
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PHall
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« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2019, 01:36:30 AM »

Just checked the list of current regulations and publications over on the gocivilairpatrol page.
Don't see a CAPR 70-1u listed anywhere, not even the publications submitted for review.
That tells me CAPR 70-1u has not been released yet and that you, etodd are once again jumping the gun, again...
You know, you say you're a small business owner. Would you keep an employee who kept violating the rules you use to run your business?
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etodd
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« Reply #25 on: April 13, 2019, 01:51:35 AM »

Just checked the list of current regulations and publications over on the gocivilairpatrol page.
Don't see a CAPR 70-1u listed anywhere, not even the publications submitted for review.
That tells me CAPR 70-1u has not been released yet and that you, etodd are once again jumping the gun, again...
You know, you say you're a small business owner. Would you keep an employee who kept violating the rules you use to run your business?

Asked and answered numerous times in many threads here. No use in repeating it.

No rules violated.  The new full time employee at Hdqs hired to roll all this out gave a fantastic briefing recently at a Wing Conference, and is encouraging all of us who are interested to help make it all happen quickly. Hdqs is down to one IT person last I heard, and can't keep up.  This new Program cannot wait for it  The official documents are sent to interested parties, which you and a few others here obviously are not.

If you are not interested, why keep reading the sUAS Forum?

Let no one ever call it a "good old boy club" ... all have been invited.  I tried.  :)

G'nite all.
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Larry Mangum
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« Reply #26 on: April 14, 2019, 04:28:37 PM »

Enough eager beavers like me in every Wing, that the new DOUs are not having to send out Wing wide emails to try and draft people. They are already very busy training the members that are interested enough and are "self starters". Which is exactly what this program needs. People with initiative. Not those who sit back and wait to be asked.


This is exactly how the good ole boy club does it. Instead of everyone being invited by the wing DO shop, a select few are chosen and they run the program. It does not take long when that happens for them to become gate keepers and they decide who gets into the program. After all no one can challenge them because the regulations and procedures to become qualified are still in development.
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« Reply #27 on: April 14, 2019, 04:31:40 PM »

If etodd wants to discuss the article that is in the Volunteer, I am happy to leave this topic open. However, if he wants to go off on a path and encourage people to go off on unapproved tangents, then this topic will be locked. We will be monitoring to see how this goes.
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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  CAP sUAS Discussions  |  Topic: Cap sUAS Program - The word from Headquarters
 


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